BIBLE HISTORY DAILY

December 25th and Christmas

When did December 25 become the date for Christmas?


When did December 25 become the date for Christmas? In the Winter 2022 issue of Biblical Archaeology Review, T.C. Schmidt argues for an early association of Jesus’s birth with December 25 in his article, “Calculating Christmas: Hippolytus and December 25th.” He explains why this date was selected. We also caught up with Schmidt later to ask him a few questions about his article.

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His article begins:

Many readers will be familiar with the common refrain that December 25, Christmas, was originally a pagan holiday, perhaps corresponding to the Roman festival of Saturnalia or the feast of the sun god Sol. As the chorus goes, the date was chosen for the birth of Jesus to make Christianity chime with a polytheistic society already attuned to December 25 revelry. But is the old song true?

I myself used to sing this kind of anti-carol, but then, while translating a treatise of Hippolytus of Rome, I came across a passage stating that Jesus was born on December 25. Now, Hippolytus was a Christian author who wrote in the early third century AD, and Saturnalia and the feast of Sol were not celebrated on December 25 that early in Roman history; Saturnalia never was, and the feast of Sol only came to be later. So Hippolytus clearly could not have chosen the date to please pagan sentiments.

Hippolytus Statue

Hippolytus Statue. The Christian theologian Hippolytus lived in the second and third centuries. This statue presents him seated on a chair with inscriptions from 222 AD on both sides. The inscription includes a date for Jesus’s conception on April 2, 2 BC. Nine months after this date would situate Jesus’s birth in late December of 2 BC or early January of 1 BC. Photo: Everett Ferguson / CC By-SA 4.0.

Schmidt goes on to explain why December 25 was selected for Christmas—if not to appropriate pagan festivities. He examines patristic manuscripts and an inscribed statue, which suggest an entirely different reason: The early church fathers’ calendrical calculations of Jesus’s conception resulted in the date.

The early church fathers believed that Jesus was conceived on Passover and born nine months later. However, they differed in their dates for Passover, which is calculated on the lunar calendar. This resulted in a variety of dates for Christmas, one of which was December 25.

To help readers understand their calculations, Schmidt analyzes an inscribed statue of Hippolytus, a third-century Christian theologian. Currently in the Vatican Library, the statue portrays Hippolytus seated on a chair. Inscriptions from 222 AD appear on the chair’s sides and back. One of the inscriptions includes a date for Jesus’s conception on April 2, 2 BC. Nine months after this date would situate Jesus’s birth in late December of 2 BC or early January of 1 BC. December 25 falls nicely within that range.

Even today, there is a variety of dates for Christmas. Catholic and Protestant churches celebrate it on December 25, but Orthodox and Coptic churches celebrate it on January 6 or 7. Some even celebrate it on January 19.

——————
Subscribers: Read the full article “Calculating Christmas: Hippolytus and December 25th” by T.C. Schmidt in the Winter 2022 issue of Biblical Archaeology Review.

 


 

Related reading in Bible History Daily:

How December 25 Became Christmas

Christmas Stories in Christian Apocrypha


17 Responses

  1. RWL says:

    Our Messiah Yehoshua was not born in a feeding trough for animals. This is a common misunderstanding by the Greeks (and later, further complicated by the English speakers) of Ancient Hebraic Culture. Yehoshua was born around the Feast of Sukkot (Tabernacles; and this was around September 26, 3 BCE or 15th Day of the month, 3998 FC). During Sukkot, all males from their 13th year and upward are required to build and live in temporary shelters-tabernacles or mangers-for 7 days. The birth of Yehoshua took place on the first day of the Feast of Sukkot. Miriam (not Mary) being a pregnant woman, was not required to live in a sukkah during the feast, but since the Bethlehem Inn was filled, she brought forth her firstborn son in a sukkah. This was an immediate fulfillment of the Feast of Tabernacles: ‘The Word/Son was made flesh and tabernacled (sukkah-ed) among us’ (John/Yochanan 1:4).

  2. Judy says:

    All of this back-and-forth discussion is really not needed anyhow. The birth of Yahshua the Messiah is not the important thing actually because they did not celebrate birthdays in God’s word. There’s enough evidence now for those who are obsessed with his birthdate to indicate from counting when John the Baptist was born on Passover to six months later that Yahshua was born during the Feast of Tabernacles . And then his conception would be during Hanukkah. It’s well known that the Roman Catholic church and emporer combined the Christian religion with paganism. December 25 is the birthdate of many famous elements of worship including the “sun” god as well as their “son of God” Jesus Christ. Come out of her my people (Rev. 18:4). Babylon is falling.

  3. RWL says:

    Most followers of Yehoshua our Moshiach (or Mashiach) do not know where the term ‘Christ’ came from. ‘Moshiach’ technically meaning “anointed by the High Priest with sacred oil for service”, was adapted into the Greek as ‘Christos’, which is derived from ‘crestes’, which means ‘to smear with grease’-a useful procedure for preserving Grecian leather battle shields (taken from Michael J. Rood’s ‘The Chronological Gospels’ 2013). There’s no way the early followers of Yehoshua would refer to themselves via these terms. Why are current followers doing this?

    My people are destroyed for want of knowledge.
    Because you rejected knowledge,
    I will also reject you as cohen for me.
    Because you forgot the Torah of Yahweh,
    I will also forget your children. (Hosea 4:6 CJB)

  4. Thank you for sharing this article!

    I just want to share some primary source material that would be of use to this conversation.
    It is important to remember that the Roman Calendar changed with the reforms of Julius Caesar. December 25th was considered the winter solstice (even though it is not the astronomical solstice, it is the recognized date on the Roman Calendar as the equinox). March 25th was considered the Spring Equinox. June 24th was the summer solstice.

    Actually, December 25th did have a date associated with pagan sentiments – it was called Bruma. This is attested to by various non-Christian writers including Vitruvius (On Architecture, 9:3:3), Varro (On the Latin Language, 6.8), Pliny the Elder (Natural History, 18.57, 59), and Censorinus (On the Natal Day, 21). It continued to be identified this way for centuries into the future (Servius, Commentary on the Aeneid, 720). It was called the ‘new sun’ (novus solis or novo sole) – though some authors attest it was called the ‘birth of the sun’.

    Martial attests that gifts were given on the bruma (Epigrams 12.81). Tertullian complained about believers participating in the same practice – he also noted that they participated in other Roman days such as Saturnalia (On Idolatry, 10, 14). Pliny noted that trees cut down when the conjunction falls on the day of bruma were considered of everlasting duration (Natural History, 16.74).

    It is interesting that Tertullian notes Christians were practicing Roman celebrations at this time. It was around this same time that Tertullian had to defend Christianity against the accusation of sun worship. References to Christ as the sun increase at this time (see Cyprian Treatise, 4.35, Pseudo-Cyprian De Pascha Comp).

    Later Christian writers, such as Epiphanius, identified December 25th with idolatry (Panarion, 51.22). Gregory of Nazianzus preached a message about the birthday of Jesus and told the believers not to imitate heathens (Oration 38.3-6).

    In the fourth and fifth centuries, references to Christ’s birthday and the sun, light, the bruma, and other sun-related quotes that mirrored Roman writers such as Varro, Pliny, etc. are found in the following writers: Gregory of Nyssa (Oration on the Day of the Nativity of Christ), Augustine (Sermon 190), Paulinus of Nola (who directly refers to Christ as the new sun and bruma; poem 14.13-20), Prudentius (Hymn for December 25th), Polemii Silvii Calendar, etc. Pope Leo I spoke of people who worshiped the sun on December 25th and still tried to observe it as the festival unto the Lord (Sermon 22.6, 27.4).

    It seems clear that the early Christians had been influenced by sun worship and gradually adopted the same language used by polytheistic worshipers. The Christian writers of this time reapplied these terms to Christ, who was considered the sun. It is interesting that Augustine leaves it out of his list of major festivals of the church (Letter 54).

    By the fourth century, a significant number of Christians adopted a calendar mirroring that of the sun from ancient Rome. December 25th became the birth of Jesus, March 25th the conception of Jesus, and June 24th the birth of John the Baptist. Although Christians in the east continued to keep January 6th as the birth of Jesus.

    Early writers who ascribed December 25th as the birth of Jesus and March 25th as the conception of Jesus followed the pattern of conformity to sun worship that started in the mid to late second century.

    1. RWL says:

      Very Interesting! Especially, ‘Pliny noted that trees cut down when the conjunction falls on the day of bruma were considered of everlasting duration (Natural History, 16.74).’

    2. Don Johnson says:

      There is some discussion of this on this blog: https://www.roger-pearse.com/weblog/2009/12/07/on-bruma-in-ancient-rome-as-found-in-the-old/

      For what it’s worth. I am not sure that Bruma = Dec 25th, based on what the author (and commenters) say there.

      1. Greetings Don!

        Thanks for sharing the link. I’ve read this link before, but find there are some sources missing/not discussed.

        Here’s a quote from Pliny:

        “The year is divided into four periods or seasons, the recurrence of which is indicated by the increase or diminution of the daylight. Immediately after the winter solstice [bruma] the days begin to increase, and by the time of the vernal equinox, or in other words, in ninety days and three hours, the day is equal in length to the night….All these seasons, too, commence at the eighth degree of the signs of the Zodiac. The winter solstice [bruma] begins at the eighth degree of Capricorn, the eighth day before the calends of January…” (Natural History, 18:57, 59).

        Pliny stated that bruma was the eighth day before the calends of January. This corresponds to December 25th with the Julian Calendar reforms.

        When Christian authors in later centuries started to observe December 25th, they called Jesus the ‘bruma’ and ‘novi sole’. This connects the ancient Roman view with the Christian view of that time. And the tradition stuck from that time until now.

    3. Thank you Kelly, I am glad that you rely so much on primary sources. It seems that Bruma in scientific sources was technically used in reference to the winter solstice (for example in Pliny the Elder and Varro), but most of the time Bruma was simply a vague term for winter (Lucretius, De Rerum Natura 5.746; Tertullian, On Idolatry 14:10; Paulinus of Nola, Carmina 14 lines 15-16; see the entry for Bruma in Lewis and Short, A Latin Dictionary)

      Either way, the actual festivities for Bruma occurred in November when the sun noticeably began southward trajectory. And, of course the real question is not why some people, somewhere celebrated the birth of Jesus on December 25 (like Prudentius and Pope Leo), but why the date was originally chosen by Hippolytus of Rome and his fellow early Christian circa 200 or so A.D. This seems clearly not because of a pagan festival, but because of their beliefs about the Bible and how God created the universe so as to literally spotlight profound spiritual moments (creation of the world, conception of Jesus, birth of Jesus, death of Jesus) by the sun and the moon (i.e. the vernal equinox, the lunar Passover, the winter solstice, etc.)

      1. ‘of course the real question is .. why the date was originally chosen by Hippolytus of Rome and his fellow early Christian circa 200 or so A.D.’ But were there not other dates proposed in the same period on the basis of similar speculations? Then perhaps the ‘real question’ would be why this one gained ascendancy, rather than one of the others.

  5. SE Murphy says:

    Guided by the Holy Spirit, I studied the birth of Jesus in Matthew and Luke which revealed:
    1)Jesus was born in 4BC in the month of Sivan(Luke1:26) May 19th-June 17th.
    2) The child was named Jesus and circumcised when the eight days had passed. (Luke 2:21)
    3) In a dream, the Lord appeared to Joseph and said “Take the child and his mother to Egypt.” (Matthew 2:13)
    4) He remained in Egypt until the death of Herod (The Great). (Matthew 2:15)
    5) After the death of Herod, Joseph was told in a dream to return to the land of Israel with the mother and child. (Matthew 2:19)
    6)After hearing that Archelaus (son of King Herod the Great) was reigning over Judea, Joseph went to Nazareth. (Matthew 2:22-23)
    7) Jesus was taken to Jerusalem after the 40 days of purification were completed. (Luke 2:22)
    8) In the sixth month, Elul, August 16-Sept 13, the Holy Spirit came upon Mary and she conceived. (Luke 1:26-45)
    9) Jesus went to Jerusalem for Passover in 9AD when he was 12 years old. (Luke2:41-42)
    10) Jesus began his ministry about the age of 30 in 27AD (18 years after 9AD at age 12).
    11) The birth of Jesus in Sivan (May-June) supports his baptism in the Jordan River (about the age of 30).
    Any thoughts about the birth of Jesus in the year 4BC?

    1. MATH says:

      I agree with you on the calendar dates but would make it 2 years later.

      I’ve heard arguments against pre 4BC but I would counter them with this:

      pursiful.com/2006/12/15/when-was-jesus-born-the-census/

      Also a 2 BC birth and a 33 AD death conforms nicely to age of about 30 when Jesus starts his ministry.

      The Jupiter and Venus conjunction on 17th June 2 BC marked the date of Jesus Birth. 8 days later when Jesus was named, 25 June 2BC, was a summer solstice. It was 23 Sivan, the same day when the word was sent out in Esther 8:9.

      There are many considerations to fit and I’ve tried to the best of my ability to put them in 2 short videos.

      youtu.be/SLUQCcNAOwk

      youtu.be/-vGSjIa3EWo

  6. Trish says:

    Jesus had to be born before 4BC, because that was when Herod died and Herod was still alive when Jesus was born. Remember the massacre in Bethlehem? Why not decide by figuring out when Miriam went to visit her cousin, John’s mother? You would think as important as Jesus is, they would know.

    1. Sandra Plate says:

      Herod the Great died in 1BC. The previous info was incorrect. They had him dying (as Josephus recorded) just after the time of a lunar eclipse, which could only be found in records as 4BC. But new scholarship is out that has that eclipse as only partial and very late at night—something that wouldn’t be widely seen. New records show a much greater eclipse on Dec 29, 1BC during the day. That fits with the biblical narrative of Jesus being born during Herod the Great’s rule.

  7. Peter Solomon Kovacs, MA RPA says:

    I thought it was calculating Kislev 25, 3757, Hanukah, as December 25, 5 BCE as the day of the immaculate conception in error because they forgot to subtract Year 0. The date of 1 Tishrei (Rosh Hashanah) on September 11, 3 BCE does seem convincing as the beginning of the “Regnal Year” of the King of Israel from birth, and the conjunction of Jupiter, the King Planet, and Regulus, the King Star. Any thoughts?

    1. RWL says:

      You maybe right. In his book, “The Chronological Gospels’, Michael J. Rood believes that Yehoshua was born in the year of 3998 from creation (probably in September during the Feast of Trumpets).

      Also, just a side note: Our Messiah’s name is Yehoshua Ben-Yosef. The name ‘Jesus’ is a late creation of English-speakers invented in the late 17th century. This is around the same time the letter ‘J’ was also invented (Also, the name ‘Jesus’ was not in the first several printed ‘bibles.’) There is no ‘J’ sound in Hebrew, Latin, or Greek. The English created this name from the Greeks-due to the English language being a combination of the Greek & Latin languages-who substituted the transliterated name of Yehoshua for IESOUS (or the Latin substituted name ‘Iesus’). It is known that the Greek name endings ‘sus’, ‘seus’, and ‘sous’ were attached by the Greeks to names and geographic areas to give honor to their supreme deity, ‘Zeus’. For example, the city of Tarsus means ‘sweat of Zeus’. Furthermore our Creator’s name is not ‘God’. This is an invention by the Germans. The Germans used this title for their supreme deity Odin. In SH’MOT (Exodus) 6:3, Our Creator gave the Jews(or Yehudis) His Name: Yud-Heh-Waw-Heh (or Yahweh, some say Yah).

  8. OCHE Samson says:

    How did the early church fathers came to Passover as the conception date of Jesus.

    1. Rob Schaller says:

      The easiest and most reliable way is to work from Elizabeth being pregnant with John the Baptist and you end up with a September birth of Yeshua.

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17 Responses

  1. RWL says:

    Our Messiah Yehoshua was not born in a feeding trough for animals. This is a common misunderstanding by the Greeks (and later, further complicated by the English speakers) of Ancient Hebraic Culture. Yehoshua was born around the Feast of Sukkot (Tabernacles; and this was around September 26, 3 BCE or 15th Day of the month, 3998 FC). During Sukkot, all males from their 13th year and upward are required to build and live in temporary shelters-tabernacles or mangers-for 7 days. The birth of Yehoshua took place on the first day of the Feast of Sukkot. Miriam (not Mary) being a pregnant woman, was not required to live in a sukkah during the feast, but since the Bethlehem Inn was filled, she brought forth her firstborn son in a sukkah. This was an immediate fulfillment of the Feast of Tabernacles: ‘The Word/Son was made flesh and tabernacled (sukkah-ed) among us’ (John/Yochanan 1:4).

  2. Judy says:

    All of this back-and-forth discussion is really not needed anyhow. The birth of Yahshua the Messiah is not the important thing actually because they did not celebrate birthdays in God’s word. There’s enough evidence now for those who are obsessed with his birthdate to indicate from counting when John the Baptist was born on Passover to six months later that Yahshua was born during the Feast of Tabernacles . And then his conception would be during Hanukkah. It’s well known that the Roman Catholic church and emporer combined the Christian religion with paganism. December 25 is the birthdate of many famous elements of worship including the “sun” god as well as their “son of God” Jesus Christ. Come out of her my people (Rev. 18:4). Babylon is falling.

  3. RWL says:

    Most followers of Yehoshua our Moshiach (or Mashiach) do not know where the term ‘Christ’ came from. ‘Moshiach’ technically meaning “anointed by the High Priest with sacred oil for service”, was adapted into the Greek as ‘Christos’, which is derived from ‘crestes’, which means ‘to smear with grease’-a useful procedure for preserving Grecian leather battle shields (taken from Michael J. Rood’s ‘The Chronological Gospels’ 2013). There’s no way the early followers of Yehoshua would refer to themselves via these terms. Why are current followers doing this?

    My people are destroyed for want of knowledge.
    Because you rejected knowledge,
    I will also reject you as cohen for me.
    Because you forgot the Torah of Yahweh,
    I will also forget your children. (Hosea 4:6 CJB)

  4. Thank you for sharing this article!

    I just want to share some primary source material that would be of use to this conversation.
    It is important to remember that the Roman Calendar changed with the reforms of Julius Caesar. December 25th was considered the winter solstice (even though it is not the astronomical solstice, it is the recognized date on the Roman Calendar as the equinox). March 25th was considered the Spring Equinox. June 24th was the summer solstice.

    Actually, December 25th did have a date associated with pagan sentiments – it was called Bruma. This is attested to by various non-Christian writers including Vitruvius (On Architecture, 9:3:3), Varro (On the Latin Language, 6.8), Pliny the Elder (Natural History, 18.57, 59), and Censorinus (On the Natal Day, 21). It continued to be identified this way for centuries into the future (Servius, Commentary on the Aeneid, 720). It was called the ‘new sun’ (novus solis or novo sole) – though some authors attest it was called the ‘birth of the sun’.

    Martial attests that gifts were given on the bruma (Epigrams 12.81). Tertullian complained about believers participating in the same practice – he also noted that they participated in other Roman days such as Saturnalia (On Idolatry, 10, 14). Pliny noted that trees cut down when the conjunction falls on the day of bruma were considered of everlasting duration (Natural History, 16.74).

    It is interesting that Tertullian notes Christians were practicing Roman celebrations at this time. It was around this same time that Tertullian had to defend Christianity against the accusation of sun worship. References to Christ as the sun increase at this time (see Cyprian Treatise, 4.35, Pseudo-Cyprian De Pascha Comp).

    Later Christian writers, such as Epiphanius, identified December 25th with idolatry (Panarion, 51.22). Gregory of Nazianzus preached a message about the birthday of Jesus and told the believers not to imitate heathens (Oration 38.3-6).

    In the fourth and fifth centuries, references to Christ’s birthday and the sun, light, the bruma, and other sun-related quotes that mirrored Roman writers such as Varro, Pliny, etc. are found in the following writers: Gregory of Nyssa (Oration on the Day of the Nativity of Christ), Augustine (Sermon 190), Paulinus of Nola (who directly refers to Christ as the new sun and bruma; poem 14.13-20), Prudentius (Hymn for December 25th), Polemii Silvii Calendar, etc. Pope Leo I spoke of people who worshiped the sun on December 25th and still tried to observe it as the festival unto the Lord (Sermon 22.6, 27.4).

    It seems clear that the early Christians had been influenced by sun worship and gradually adopted the same language used by polytheistic worshipers. The Christian writers of this time reapplied these terms to Christ, who was considered the sun. It is interesting that Augustine leaves it out of his list of major festivals of the church (Letter 54).

    By the fourth century, a significant number of Christians adopted a calendar mirroring that of the sun from ancient Rome. December 25th became the birth of Jesus, March 25th the conception of Jesus, and June 24th the birth of John the Baptist. Although Christians in the east continued to keep January 6th as the birth of Jesus.

    Early writers who ascribed December 25th as the birth of Jesus and March 25th as the conception of Jesus followed the pattern of conformity to sun worship that started in the mid to late second century.

    1. RWL says:

      Very Interesting! Especially, ‘Pliny noted that trees cut down when the conjunction falls on the day of bruma were considered of everlasting duration (Natural History, 16.74).’

    2. Don Johnson says:

      There is some discussion of this on this blog: https://www.roger-pearse.com/weblog/2009/12/07/on-bruma-in-ancient-rome-as-found-in-the-old/

      For what it’s worth. I am not sure that Bruma = Dec 25th, based on what the author (and commenters) say there.

      1. Greetings Don!

        Thanks for sharing the link. I’ve read this link before, but find there are some sources missing/not discussed.

        Here’s a quote from Pliny:

        “The year is divided into four periods or seasons, the recurrence of which is indicated by the increase or diminution of the daylight. Immediately after the winter solstice [bruma] the days begin to increase, and by the time of the vernal equinox, or in other words, in ninety days and three hours, the day is equal in length to the night….All these seasons, too, commence at the eighth degree of the signs of the Zodiac. The winter solstice [bruma] begins at the eighth degree of Capricorn, the eighth day before the calends of January…” (Natural History, 18:57, 59).

        Pliny stated that bruma was the eighth day before the calends of January. This corresponds to December 25th with the Julian Calendar reforms.

        When Christian authors in later centuries started to observe December 25th, they called Jesus the ‘bruma’ and ‘novi sole’. This connects the ancient Roman view with the Christian view of that time. And the tradition stuck from that time until now.

    3. Thank you Kelly, I am glad that you rely so much on primary sources. It seems that Bruma in scientific sources was technically used in reference to the winter solstice (for example in Pliny the Elder and Varro), but most of the time Bruma was simply a vague term for winter (Lucretius, De Rerum Natura 5.746; Tertullian, On Idolatry 14:10; Paulinus of Nola, Carmina 14 lines 15-16; see the entry for Bruma in Lewis and Short, A Latin Dictionary)

      Either way, the actual festivities for Bruma occurred in November when the sun noticeably began southward trajectory. And, of course the real question is not why some people, somewhere celebrated the birth of Jesus on December 25 (like Prudentius and Pope Leo), but why the date was originally chosen by Hippolytus of Rome and his fellow early Christian circa 200 or so A.D. This seems clearly not because of a pagan festival, but because of their beliefs about the Bible and how God created the universe so as to literally spotlight profound spiritual moments (creation of the world, conception of Jesus, birth of Jesus, death of Jesus) by the sun and the moon (i.e. the vernal equinox, the lunar Passover, the winter solstice, etc.)

      1. ‘of course the real question is .. why the date was originally chosen by Hippolytus of Rome and his fellow early Christian circa 200 or so A.D.’ But were there not other dates proposed in the same period on the basis of similar speculations? Then perhaps the ‘real question’ would be why this one gained ascendancy, rather than one of the others.

  5. SE Murphy says:

    Guided by the Holy Spirit, I studied the birth of Jesus in Matthew and Luke which revealed:
    1)Jesus was born in 4BC in the month of Sivan(Luke1:26) May 19th-June 17th.
    2) The child was named Jesus and circumcised when the eight days had passed. (Luke 2:21)
    3) In a dream, the Lord appeared to Joseph and said “Take the child and his mother to Egypt.” (Matthew 2:13)
    4) He remained in Egypt until the death of Herod (The Great). (Matthew 2:15)
    5) After the death of Herod, Joseph was told in a dream to return to the land of Israel with the mother and child. (Matthew 2:19)
    6)After hearing that Archelaus (son of King Herod the Great) was reigning over Judea, Joseph went to Nazareth. (Matthew 2:22-23)
    7) Jesus was taken to Jerusalem after the 40 days of purification were completed. (Luke 2:22)
    8) In the sixth month, Elul, August 16-Sept 13, the Holy Spirit came upon Mary and she conceived. (Luke 1:26-45)
    9) Jesus went to Jerusalem for Passover in 9AD when he was 12 years old. (Luke2:41-42)
    10) Jesus began his ministry about the age of 30 in 27AD (18 years after 9AD at age 12).
    11) The birth of Jesus in Sivan (May-June) supports his baptism in the Jordan River (about the age of 30).
    Any thoughts about the birth of Jesus in the year 4BC?

    1. MATH says:

      I agree with you on the calendar dates but would make it 2 years later.

      I’ve heard arguments against pre 4BC but I would counter them with this:

      pursiful.com/2006/12/15/when-was-jesus-born-the-census/

      Also a 2 BC birth and a 33 AD death conforms nicely to age of about 30 when Jesus starts his ministry.

      The Jupiter and Venus conjunction on 17th June 2 BC marked the date of Jesus Birth. 8 days later when Jesus was named, 25 June 2BC, was a summer solstice. It was 23 Sivan, the same day when the word was sent out in Esther 8:9.

      There are many considerations to fit and I’ve tried to the best of my ability to put them in 2 short videos.

      youtu.be/SLUQCcNAOwk

      youtu.be/-vGSjIa3EWo

  6. Trish says:

    Jesus had to be born before 4BC, because that was when Herod died and Herod was still alive when Jesus was born. Remember the massacre in Bethlehem? Why not decide by figuring out when Miriam went to visit her cousin, John’s mother? You would think as important as Jesus is, they would know.

    1. Sandra Plate says:

      Herod the Great died in 1BC. The previous info was incorrect. They had him dying (as Josephus recorded) just after the time of a lunar eclipse, which could only be found in records as 4BC. But new scholarship is out that has that eclipse as only partial and very late at night—something that wouldn’t be widely seen. New records show a much greater eclipse on Dec 29, 1BC during the day. That fits with the biblical narrative of Jesus being born during Herod the Great’s rule.

  7. Peter Solomon Kovacs, MA RPA says:

    I thought it was calculating Kislev 25, 3757, Hanukah, as December 25, 5 BCE as the day of the immaculate conception in error because they forgot to subtract Year 0. The date of 1 Tishrei (Rosh Hashanah) on September 11, 3 BCE does seem convincing as the beginning of the “Regnal Year” of the King of Israel from birth, and the conjunction of Jupiter, the King Planet, and Regulus, the King Star. Any thoughts?

    1. RWL says:

      You maybe right. In his book, “The Chronological Gospels’, Michael J. Rood believes that Yehoshua was born in the year of 3998 from creation (probably in September during the Feast of Trumpets).

      Also, just a side note: Our Messiah’s name is Yehoshua Ben-Yosef. The name ‘Jesus’ is a late creation of English-speakers invented in the late 17th century. This is around the same time the letter ‘J’ was also invented (Also, the name ‘Jesus’ was not in the first several printed ‘bibles.’) There is no ‘J’ sound in Hebrew, Latin, or Greek. The English created this name from the Greeks-due to the English language being a combination of the Greek & Latin languages-who substituted the transliterated name of Yehoshua for IESOUS (or the Latin substituted name ‘Iesus’). It is known that the Greek name endings ‘sus’, ‘seus’, and ‘sous’ were attached by the Greeks to names and geographic areas to give honor to their supreme deity, ‘Zeus’. For example, the city of Tarsus means ‘sweat of Zeus’. Furthermore our Creator’s name is not ‘God’. This is an invention by the Germans. The Germans used this title for their supreme deity Odin. In SH’MOT (Exodus) 6:3, Our Creator gave the Jews(or Yehudis) His Name: Yud-Heh-Waw-Heh (or Yahweh, some say Yah).

  8. OCHE Samson says:

    How did the early church fathers came to Passover as the conception date of Jesus.

    1. Rob Schaller says:

      The easiest and most reliable way is to work from Elizabeth being pregnant with John the Baptist and you end up with a September birth of Yeshua.

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