BIBLE HISTORY DAILY

Rock Giants in Noah

Can the Book of Enoch shed light on Noah the movie?

ronald-hendel

Ronald S. Hendel

Who—or what—are the rock giants in Noah the movie?

Genesis 6 makes no mention of rock giants—or fallen angels—helping Noah build the ark. Where then did the rock giants in Noah the movie come from? Are they merely an invention by Hollywood scriptwriters?

The Hollywood blockbuster Noah has generated its fair share of controversy, with some saying the movie took too many liberties with the Biblical text. Certainly it is not a straightforward retelling of the flood story in Genesis 6, but as Ronald S. Hendel points out in his Biblical Views column “Noah, Enoch, and the Flood: The Bible Meets Hollywood,” which appears in the July/August 2014 issue of BAR, the flood story has been reimagined in Christian and Jewish texts, such as the apocryphal Book of Enoch, for millennia.

While rock giants are absent from the Book of Genesis, the Book of Enoch might shed light on their identity.


In the free eBook Exploring Genesis: The Bible’s Ancient Traditions in Context, discover the cultural contexts for many of Israel’s earliest traditions. Explore Mesopotamian creation myths, Joseph’s relationship with Egyptian temple practices and three different takes on the location of Ur of the Chaldees, the birthplace of Abraham.

The Book of Enoch is a collection of texts, the earliest dating to the third century B.C.E., supposedly authored by the famous Enoch of the Bible, who lived “in the seventh generation from Adam” (Jude 14) and was taken by God: “Enoch walked with God; then he was no more, because God took him” (Genesis 5:24). This apocryphal book reimagines the account of Genesis 5–6, adding details to the flood narrative and elaborating on what was revealed to Enoch in heaven.

noah-rock-giants

Who are the rock giants in Noah the movie? Are they to be identified with the Watchers, fallen angels in the Book of Enoch?

In its expansion of the flood account we are introduced to the Watchers, fallen angels who mated with human women and produced offspring—the Nephilim, the “heroes that were of old, warriors of renown” of Genesis 6:4—or giants. The Book of Enoch states that the Watchers shared secret knowledge with their sons that led to the corruption of the world. The giants ravaged the earth, filling it with destruction and evil; they depleted the world of food and terrified humankind. These actions trigger the flood.


For more on Hollywood movies, read “Excruciating Exodus Movie Exudes Errors,” “The ‘Gods of Egypt’ Movie: A Mess of Anachronisms and Exoticization” and “Blending into One: The ‘Left Behind’ Movie, the Book of Revelation and the Rapture.”


noah-movie

Darren Aronofsky’s Noah (2014).

When Enoch confronts the Watchers about their impending doom, they implore him to intercede on their behalf. He agrees—but to no avail. The Watchers’ petition is not granted; they and their sons are not able to escape their punishment—the flood.

Returning to our earlier question: Who are the rock giants in Noah the movie? They’re called fallen angels and are based loosely on the Watchers we see in the Book of Enoch.

To find out more about the Genesis Flood and the Book of Enoch, read the full column “Noah, Enoch, and the Flood: The Bible Meets Hollywood” by Ronald S. Hendel in the July/August 2014 issue of BAR.

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BAS Library Members: Read the full Biblical Views column “Noah, Enoch, and the Flood: The Bible Meets Hollywood” by Ronald S. Hendel in the July/August 2014 issue of Biblical Archaeology Review.

Not a BAS Library member yet? Join the BAS Library today.


In the free eBook Exploring Genesis: The Bible’s Ancient Traditions in Context, discover the cultural contexts for many of Israel’s earliest traditions. Explore Mesopotamian creation myths, Joseph’s relationship with Egyptian temple practices and three different takes on the location of Ur of the Chaldees, the birthplace of Abraham.

Related reading in Bible History Daily:

The Search for Noah’s Flood

Who Are the Nephilim?

Where Noah Landed?

The Animals Went in Two by Two, According to Babylonian Ark Tablet

The Curse of Ham—A New Reading in the Dead Sea Scrolls


This Bible History Daily feature was originally published on July 14, 2014.


 

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73 Responses

  1. Amy Griffin says:

    The movie provided me with more truth that it is all fairytales. Nothing but stories that have been passed down since humans drew on cave walls.

  2. Stephen Funck says:

    Many cultures have flood stories. They saw sea shells and huge bones in the rocks on top of the mountains. Stories in time grow more complex, the simple are earlier. Genesis is simple It is not a simplification of the older but the ur-story before. All the religions around have creation, source of evil and flood stories. They cannot be omitted by a “true” God and remain credible. Standing stones seeming to represent gods are all over, the earliest without faces. Gods with names and images would not evolve into nameless imageless deities. Moses met a god with no image and no name “I am = Being. That ur-god would evolves into the many. A god with out time, perfect, without blame for evil and death, rescuer, redeemer, with out human merit, because of His essence Divine Love. That is not inventible by human minds.Triune, dual nature, logically impossible, no real God is similar to anything we can imagine. Believe it or not!

  3. joseph says:

    I’m not going to get deep on this conversation, but would like to put my 2 cents worth in. I was really disappointed in this movie, I was hoping it would be more factual than it was. It was off the WORD. Hollywood (little Babylon) at it’s best. It takes a little truth and distorts it with lies. The last great religious movie made in Hollywood was researched, and directed by Cecil B Demille.

  4. Andrew says:

    This is a quote from your article:
    When Enoch confronts the Watchers about their impending doom, they implore him to intercede on their behalf. He agrees—but to no avail.”
    In fact, Noah implored all mankind to escape the flood. He built an ark with room for more. Everybody heard his predictions of destruction.
    Nobody responded.
    Nobody asked for prayer.
    Nobody cared.
    It wasn’t until God poured out His wrath that they cared
    And by then it was too late.
    The door to the ark had been firmly shut by God.
    Nobody could open it.
    The only option that led to life was on the ark and they all gave it a pass.
    God saved His faithful servant and washed the earth clean. Noah was off to a new start with his family and a heap of animals that fared a lot better than live trading sheep bound for the Middle East.
    God is starting near His ark today. It is a 2000 year old cross that bridges the gap between God and man. The only way, as Jesus said. Don’t accept counterfeits.
    He loves you.
    Jesus died for you.
    Eternity is in the balance.

  5. Andrew says:

    The director of this misleading film is a reknown atheist. In his own words it is the most unbiblical biblical film ever made. So much for questioning “facts from the film”.
    Do yourself a favour.
    Grab your bible.
    Check out the story in Genesis.
    ONLY reliable source.

  6. dannyhood says:

    It’s all happy. Noah’s life was hard nothing happy about building an ark middle of nowhere. I sure God gave some joy to him , very little, when job was finished, when Noah got drunk .

  7. dannyhood says:

    Movies suck nowadays. Hollywood doesnt follow book of genesis or enoch. I havent seen this movie but I know its just gonna suck.

  8. Jake says:

    Nice introduction to a topic which can be quite confusing – a lot of different rabbit holes and a lot of strange interpretations that seem to stray farther and farther from the simple reading of the text and straightforward analysis of historical texts that reference the event described in Genesis 6.
    A few people have attempted to novelize it, in order to cut through the fog and present a realistic scenario that harmonizes the Biblical account with the myths attached to it. Check out ‘The Descent of the Gods’ at http://www.thedescentofthegods.com for example.

  9. psychic Uses Parts says:

    Hi to all, the contents present at this site
    are truly awesome for people knowledge, well, keep up the good work fellows.

  10. JCs says:

    You should CLARIFY that they was not in the original story of the Bible
    When I click on them tags on search that come up first yours comes up with them which is misleading many- The fallen angels didn’t help Noah build that Ark nor was there a stowaway- Here is the True Account- https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Genesis-Chapter-6/ can read forward and can ready back- No Giants helping Noe-

  11. Phil says:

    B.C.E.? Nice way to lose your readers in the opening paragraphs.

  12. NekiTaku says:

    It’s a movie made by a Satanist. Why wouldn’t they show the giants as good guys, helping God’s chosen?

    It’s just a twisty tongue retelling of an ancient tale.

  13. 144 says:

    think you the creator has no more light? think you that thousands of bibles did not exist before you found this one? think not that the bible was changed and libraries burnt down? think you not that the bible has huge gaps and contradictions and clearly states IT IS SEALED SEVEN TIMES ;7 TIMES CODEX. Unsealing it is a REVELATION AND SHOCKING. IF YOU AREN’T SHOCKED YOU HAVEN’T UNSEALED IT. You are following mainstream answers. NO ONE PUTS THE KEY TO HIDDEN TREASURES IN PUBLIC UNLESS THEY FIRST ENCODE IT FOR ONLY THE WORTHY ARE WORTHY , THE TRUE SEEKERS.

    THE PUBLIC ANSWERS ARE FOR EVERYONE, THE MASSES, THE PRIVATE ANSWERS ARE HIDDEN AS ITS SAYS IN BIBLE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN IS LIKE THE FIELD WHICH WHEN THE MAN FOUND THE TREASURE HE HID AGAIN AND BOUGHT THE FIELD. FOOLISH PEOPLE!!!! NO ONE CAN GIVE YOU ANSWERS. TREASURES ARE SOUGHT FOR AND PEARLS NOT GIVEN TO SWINE.

    SEEK AND FIND.

  14. 144 says:

    THE MOVIE OF NOAH IS ENCODED FOR THOSE WITH EYES TO SEE AND EARS TO HEAR BUT THE FOOLS WILL THINK THEIR BELIEFS ARE RIGHT AND THUS IGNORE, SECRETS IN PLAIN SIGHT. FOOLISH PEOPLE OF EARTH AS DA VINCI SAID, BLINDING IGNORANCE DOES MISLEAD YOU.

  15. Rebecca Lauzon says:

    Thank you for putting this in print. I’ve never heard or read anything from this “Book of Enoch” and find it very interesting. Something to pursude deeper.

  16. Book of enoch says:

    Book of enoch
    VI-XI. The Fall of the Angels: the Demoralisation of Mankind: the Intercession of the Angels on behalf of Mankind. The Dooms pronounced by God on the Angels: the Messianic Kingdom (a Noah fragment).
    CHAPTER VI.
    1. And it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied that in those days were born unto them beautiful and comely daughters. 2. And the angels, the children of the heaven, saw and lusted after them, and said to one another: ‘Come, let us choose us wives from among the children of men and beget us children.’ 3. And Semjâzâ, who was their leader, said unto them: ‘I fear ye will not indeed agree to do this deed, and I alone shall have to pay the penalty of a great sin.’ 4. And they all answered
    p. 35
    him and said: ‘Let us all swear an oath, and all bind ourselves by mutual imprecations not to abandon this plan but to do this thing.’ 5. Then sware they all together and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it. 6. And they were in all two hundred; who descended ⌈in the days⌉ of Jared on the summit of Mount Hermon, and they called it Mount Hermon, because they had sworn and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it. 7. And these are the names of their leaders: Sêmîazâz, their leader, Arâkîba, Râmêêl, Kôkabîêl, Tâmîêl, Râmîêl, Dânêl, Êzêqêêl, Barâqîjâl, Asâêl, Armârôs, Batârêl, Anânêl, Zaqîêl, Samsâpêêl, Satarêl, Tûrêl, Jômjâêl, Sariêl. 8. These are their chiefs of tens.
    CHAPTER VII.
    1. And all the others together with them took unto themselves wives, and each chose for himself one, and they began to go in unto them and to defile themselves with them, and they taught them charms and enchantments, and the cutting of roots, and made them acquainted with plants. 2. And they became pregnant, and they bare great giants, whose height was three thousand ells: 3. Who consumed all the acquisitions of men. And when men could no longer sustain them, 4. the giants turned against them and devoured mankind. 5. And they began to sin against birds, and beasts, and reptiles, and fish, and to devour one another’s flesh, and drink the blood. 6. Then the earth laid accusation against the lawless CHAPTER VIII.
    1. And Azâzêl taught men to make swords, and knives, and shields, and breastplates, and made known to them the metals 〈of the earth〉 and the art of working them, and bracelets, and ornaments, and the use of antimony, and the beautifying of the eyelids, and all kinds of costly stones, and all colouring tinctures. 2. And there arose much godlessness, and they committed fornication, and they were led astray, and became corrupt in all their ways. Semjâzâ taught enchantments, and root-cuttings, Armârôs the resolving of enchantments, Barâqîjâl,
    p. 36
    [paragraph continues]
    (taught) astrology, Kôkabêl the constellations, Ezêqêêl the knowledge of the clouds, 〈Araqiêl the signs of the earth, Shamsiêl the signs of the sun〉, and Sariêl the course of the moon. And as men perished, they cried, and their cry went up to heaven . . .
    CHAPTER IX.
    1. And then Michael, Uriel, Raphael, and Gabriel looked down from heaven and saw much blood being shed upon the earth, and all lawlessness being wrought upon the earth. 2. And they said one to another: ‘The earth made †without inhabitant cries the voice of their crying† up to the gates of heaven. 3 ⌈⌈And now to you, the holy ones of heaven⌉⌉, the souls of men make their suit, saying, “Bring our cause before the Most High.”.’ 4. And they said to the Lord of the ages: ‘Lord of lords, God of gods, King of kings, 〈and God of the ages〉, the throne of Thy glory (standeth) unto all the generations of the ages, and Thy name holy and glorious and blessed unto all the ages! 5. Thou hast made all things, and power over all things hast Thou: and all things are naked and open in Thy sight, and Thou seest all things, and nothing can hide itself from Thee. 6. Thou seest what Azâzêl hath done, who hath taught all unrighteousness on earth and revealed the eternal secrets which were (preserved) in heaven, which men were striving to learn: 7. And Semjâzâ, to whom Thou hast given authority to bear rule over his associates. 8. And they have gone to the daughters of men upon the earth, and have slept with the women, and have defiled themselves, and revealed to them all kinds of sins. 9. And the women have borne giants, and the whole earth has thereby been filled with blood and unrighteousness. 10. And now, behold, the souls of those who have died are crying and making their suit to the gates of heaven, and their lamentations have ascended: and cannot cease because of the lawless deeds which are wrought on the earth. 11. And Thou knowest all things before they come to pass, and
    p. 37
    [paragraph continues]
    Thou seest these things and Thou dost suffer them, and Thou dost not say to us what we are to do to them in regard to these.’

    CHAPTER X.
    1. Then said the Most High, the Holy and Great One spake, and sent Uriel to the son of Lamech, and said to him: 2. ‘〈Go to Noah〉 and tell him in my name “Hide thyself!” and reveal to him the end that is approaching: that the whole earth will be destroyed, and a deluge is about to come upon the whole earth, and will destroy all that is on it. 3. And now instruct him that he may escape and his seed may be preserved for all the generations of the world.’ 4. And again the Lord said to Raphael: ‘Bind Azâzêl hand and foot, and cast him into the darkness: and make an opening in the desert, which is in Dûdâêl, and cast him therein. 5. And place upon him rough and jagged rocks, and cover him with darkness, and let him abide there for ever, and cover his face that he may not see light. 6. And on the day of the great judgement he shall be cast into the fire. And heal the earth which the angels have corrupted, and proclaim the healing of the earth, that they may heal the plague, and that all the children of men may not perish through all the secret things that the Watchers have disclosed and have taught their sons. 8. And the whole earth has been corrupted through the works that were taught by Azâzêl: to him ascribe all sin.’ 9. And to Gabriel said the Lord: ‘Proceed against the bastards and the reprobates, and against the children of fornication: and destroy [the children of fornication and] the children of the Watchers from amongst men [and cause them to go forth]: send them one against the other that they may destroy each other in battle: for length of days shall they not have. 10. And no request that they (i.e. their fathers) make of thee shall be granted unto their fathers on their behalf; for they hope to live an eternal life, and that each one of them will live five hundred years.’ 11. And the Lord said unto Michael: ‘Go, bind Semjâzâ and his associates who have united themselves with women so as to have defiled themselves with them in all their uncleanness. 12. And when their sons have slain one another, and they have seen the destruction of their beloved ones, bind them fast for seventy generations in the valleys of the earth, till the day of their judgement and of their consummation, till the judgement that is for ever and ever is consummated. 13. In those days they shall be led off to the abyss of fire: 〈and〉 to the torment and the prison in which they shall be confined for ever. And whosoever shall be condemned and destroyed will from thenceforth be bound together with them to the end of all generations. 15. And destroy all the spirits of the reprobate and the children of the Watchers, because they have wronged mankind. Destroy all wrong from the face of the earth and let every evil work come to an end: and let the plant of righteousness and truth appear: ⌈and it shall prove a blessing; the works of righteousness and truth⌉ shall be planted in truth and joy for evermore.
    17 And then shall all the righteous escape,
And shall live till they beget thousands of children,
And all the days of their youth and their old age
Shall they complete in peace.
    18 And then shall the whole earth be tilled in righteousness, and shall all be planted with trees and be full of blessing. 19. And all desirable trees shall be planted on it, and they shall plant vines on it: and the vine which they plant thereon shall yield wine in abundance, and as for all the seed which is sown thereon each measure (of it) shall bear a thousand, and each measure of olives shall yield ten presses of oil. 20. And cleanse thou the earth from all oppression, and from all unrighteousness, and from all sin, and from all godlessness: and all the uncleanness that is wrought upon the earth destroy from off the earth. 21. ⌈And all the children of men shall become righteous⌉, and all nations shall
    p. 39
    offer adoration and shall praise Me, and all shall worship Me. And the earth shall be cleansed from all defilement, and from all sin, and from all punishment, and from all torment, and I will never again send (them) upon it from generation to generation and for ever.

    CHAPTER XV.
    1. And He answered and said to me, and I heard His voice: ‘Fear not, Enoch, thou righteous man and scribe of righteousness: approach hither and hear my voice. 2. And go, say to ⌈⌈the Watchers of heaven⌉⌉, who have sent thee to intercede ⌈⌈for them: “You should intercede”⌉⌉ for men, and not men for you: 3. Wherefore have ye left the high, holy, and eternal heaven, and lain with women, and defiled yourselves with the daughters of men and taken to yourselves wives, and done like the children of earth, and begotten giants (as your) sons? 4. And
    p. 43
    though ye were holy, spiritual, living the eternal life, you have defiled yourselves with the blood of women, and have begotten (children) with the blood of flesh, and, as the childrenof men, have lusted after flesh and blood as those ⌈also⌉ do who die and perish. 5. Therefore have I given them wives also that they might impregnate them, and beget children by them, that thus nothing might be wanting to them on earth. 6. But you were ⌈formerly⌉ spiritual, living the eternal life, and immortal for all generations of the world. 7. And therefore I have not appointed wives for you; for as for the spiritual ones of the heaven, in heaven is their dwelling. 8. And now, the giants, who are produced from the spirits and flesh, shall be called evil spirits upon the earth, and on the earth shall be their dwelling. 9. Evil spirits have proceeded from their bodies; because they are born from men, ⌈⌈and⌉⌉ from the holy Watchers is their beginning and primal origin; ⌈they shall be evil spirits on earth, and⌉ evil spirits shall they be called. [10. As for the spirits of heaven, in heaven shall be their dwelling, but as for the spirits of the earth which were born upon the earth, on the earth shall be their dwelling.] 11. And the spirits of the giants afflict, oppress, destroy, attack, do battle, and work destruction on the earth, and cause trouble: they take no food, ⌈but nevertheless hunger⌉ and thirst, and cause offences. And these spirits shall rise up against the children of men and against the women, because they have proceeded ⌈from them⌉.

  17. Bill says:

    Why in the world are you trying to twist scripture to fit a movie that had elements not based on scripture?

  18. Edward says:

    Edward Gontar My Wife and I left the theater shortly after they “introduced” the Rock Demons. The Blasphemous movie was Satan’s way of twisting the truth of scripture and making the ignorant feel some sort of “sympathy” toward the Demons. Making them out to be “hard done by” and or the “Saviors”. Wow what a joke. I am sure the Creator and our Lord were not impressed with it either.

  19. Sam says:

    This was the worst article, you went back and forth without answering anything

  20. Doug Elwell says:

    This movie was little more than the cinematic equivalent of a bad midrash directed by a very foolish man.

  21. Benoni Saratorio says:

    Thank you very much. I am so excited to know more. Shalom.

  22. Carl Oredson says:

    Why are you trying to make the movie Noah fit with the Bible? Shouldn’t you instead just say that the movie took liberties?
    The nephilim have never been depicted as rock giants anywhere else than in this movie, so why even try to make it work with the bible?

  23. jesus says:

    I have made a series titled ‘Book of Enoch Warnings for the last Generation’ Watchers Nephilim Giants & Fallen Angels Explained
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGL0sfKNR5w&list=PLV7Wy_Z8JeGiJfWIQkXTyDVTaCdfnxAqx for people who are interested in getting more info about the Watchers, Nephilim, Rephaim Giants & Fallen Angels before Noah’s flood. I think that Enoch writings are key source to understand what happened in the past, in that way we will be able to understand what’s coming in the future because Jesus said that the last times will be like in the days of Noah, and according to Enoch and the book of Genesis, giants, nephilim, rephaim & fallen angels were on earth in those days, and will be again for the coming of the son of men.

  24. jesus says:

    I have made a series called ‘Book of Enoch Warnings for the last Generation’ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGL0sfKNR5w&list=PLV7Wy_Z8JeGiJfWIQkXTyDVTaCdfnxAqx for people who are interested in getting more info about the Watchers, Nephilim, Rephaim Giants & Fallen Angels before Noah’s flood. I think that Enoch writings are key to understand what happened in the past, in that way we will be able to understand what’s coming in the future because Jesus said that the last times will be like in the days of Noah, and according to Enoch and the book of Genesis, giants, nephilim, rephaim & fallen angels were on earth in those days.

  25. Shayne says:

    “The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things that are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law.” Deuteronomy 29:29.

    We don’t know everything that has happened, only what has been revealed to us. The important thing is Jesus Christ died, rose again, and Has given eternal life to those who have put their faith in Him.

  26. Doug Matthews says:

    Hear, hear, Douglas #47!
    All the above commentary is pedantic and laborious and far too serious by many who take themselves very seriously.

    This is Hollywood, the land of make-believe, the realm of fiction, the empire of pretend, for God’s sake. If Hollywood can screw up WWII movies, with tons of factual, documented evidence to rely on, what do you expect the celluloid folks to do with a Bible story?
    Chill out!

  27. Douglas says:

    I have been studying the Bible in depth; with various translations and original languages, for nearly 30yrs. I don’t think that the author of the movie script was intending on conveying a truth exactly as recorded in the Bible. It is what it is; a Hollywood film that used a story from the Bible as it basis, but also including some ideas and concepts from ancient Sumerian/Akkadian epics. This is called poetic license, and there is nothing wrong with it. It made the story very interesting; giving the viewer something to think about. And, who knows; it might even cause some people to study the truth of the Biblical text?!?!

  28. Paul Ballotta says:

    Somebody obviously knew what they were doing when they made this film. The creation sequence is consistant with modern physics regarding the origin of the universe on the first day of creation. In a New York Times article from September 14, 2008 entitled “”The Boom in Galaxies After the Big Bang,” it speaks of the first generation of stars:
    “Calculations suggest that the first stars to form, out of hydrogen and helium produced in the Big Bang, would be 100 times as massive as the Sun and would rapidly explode, scattering heavier elements like oxygen, carbon, nitrogen and iron – the stuff of planets and life – into space to serve as material for a new generation of stars.”
    This is consistant with God’s explanation to Job about the building material used to construct the earth, “when the morning stars sang together, and the sons of Elohim shouted for joy” (Job 38:7).

  29. Paul Ballotta says:

    Thank you Gene B. for that elaboration. Perhaps then it was the first generation of giants who were indeed “mighty ones” in their ability to construct the temple at Gobekli Tepe at a time when humans were hunter-gatherers. Fast forward to another generation of giants who built cities like Gilgamesh and like the pillar at Gobekli Tepe that represented a priest, Gilgamesh also officiated in ceremonial priestly garb and it was said that he was 2/3 god. The standing stones at Gobekli Tepe were carved in the form of predatory creatures the significance of which eludes us. Perhaps they learned to harness this power of the creatures over and against the people they controlled so that when the agricultural revolution began, people covered the site with debris, imprisoning the harmful spirits. Gilgamesh was said to have waged military campaigns and the extended tours of duty caused an outcry among the people of Uruk and this is the setting in which Enkidu arrives from the wilderness; “He, Enkidu, and his beasts had intruded on the stalker’s place” (tablet 1 column 2). Enkidu would be the only one who could challenge Gilgamesh, who relied on his physical prowess to bully people. The two become friends and embarked on an expedition for timber (which, according to Gene B.’s comment #24 made Gigamesh a nephilim, or “feller”) and they kill the guardian of the cedar forest which brings a decree from the gods that Enkidu must die. Then Enkidu regrets being seduced by the woman who lured him to civilization by first giving him wine so that he was out of touch with nature. Thus, in this context, the vine represented the tree of knowledge that introduces primitive man to civilization while the pristine cedars of the forrest is the tree of life. This role is reversed in the non-canonical book, “The Shepherd of Hermes.” In chapter 51 the elm tree symbolizes the rich person that doesn.t produce fuit; “the rich person has money, but is poor towards the Lord, since he is distracted by his wealth.” It gos on to describe a type of symbiotic relationship between the elm and the vine (not unlike Gilgamesh and Enkidu) so that the vine entwines itself aroun the elm, enabling it to bear fruit, which it couldn’t do lying on the ground. I think that is the moral lesson of the rock giants in “Noah.” In the “Enuma Elish” the Anunnaki gods are assigned by Marduk to their respective sphere of influence, with 300 assigned to the sky and 300 assigned over the earth. 300 is the height of the giants in 1 Enoch 7:2 and 300 cubits is the length of Noah’s ark (Genesis 6:15).

  30. Gene R. Conradi says:

    “God did not hold back from punishing the ANGELS THAT SINNED….delivered them to PITS OF DENSE DARKNESS, to be reserved for judgement,and did not hold back from punishing an ancient world……. when He brought a deluge.” (2 Peter 2:4, 5)

    “And the angels that did not keep their ORIGINAL POSITION but forsook their own PROPER DWELLING PLACE he has reserved with ETERNAL BONDS under dense darkness for the judgement of the great day.” (Jude 6)

    “……. he (Jesus) went his way and preached to the spirits in PRISON, who had once been DISOBEDIENT when the patience of God was waiting in NOAH’S DAYS, while the ark was being constructed, in which a few people,that is eight souls, were carried safely through the water.” (1 Peter 3:19, 20)

    “Then the SONS OF GOD (ANGELS—–SEPTUAGINT) began to notice the DAUGHTERS OF MAN , that they were good looking; and they went taking wives for themselves, namely, all whom they chose. The NEPHILIM (gi’gantes -giants-Septuagint) PROVED TO BE IN THE EARTH IN THOSE DAYS, and also after that, when the Sons of God CONTINUED to have relations with the daughters of men and they bore sons to them, they were the “mighty ones”(gi’gantes-giants–Septuagint) who were of old, the men of fame(but still men, not Hollywood’s imaginary rock creatures)

  31. Paul Ballotta says:

    Paul D. while I agree that there were written traditions that were passed down through the line of Shem to Abraham, the book of Genesis as we have it now wasn’t composed until the period of the early monarchy and the 5th chapter of Genesis wasn’t composed until after the return from Bablylonian captivity during 5th century B.C.E,. by the same priestly authors who composed the 1st chapter of Genesis. Hence the emphasis on humans being made in the image of God (Genesis 1:26, 5:1) after their experiance in exile among a populace who were mental slaves under the state-approved religion. Interestingly, the Jews did have an anecdote; Genesis chapter 11, that was reflected in the writings of Second Isaiah. The verse from Genesi 11:7, “Come, let us go down and confound their language there…” contains the Hebrew word ‘neredah’ (go down) and except for the vowel points, is similar to the word for nard; ‘nerd.’ Mentioned in Song of Songs 4:16, nard is a perfumed oil that was imported from India via Persia, and it’s possible that this descent was like the flowing down of ointment (Matthew 26:7).

  32. Paul D says:

    “I have had enough of you condescending attitude and your venom”.

    ……being studiously accurate is not condescending & most especially not venomous. What does making such a statement say about yourself & your attitude not only towards others but about the Bible itself? The Pharisees did not like Jesus questioning their authority over scripture & obviously you do not like my approach at getting at the truth, you are simply taking my approach as a challenge to your self perceived authority, get over yourself………. Paul D.

  33. Howard West says:

    וַיִּרְאוּ בְנֵי-הָאֱלֹהִים אֶת-בְּנוֹת הָאָדָם, כִּי טֹבֹת הֵנָּה; וַיִּקְחוּ לָהֶם נָשִׁים, מִכֹּל אֲשֶׁר בָּחָרוּ.
    Paul says
    “Why should anyone who is a student of the original languages of the Bible care anything about what “the paraphrase” states?

    Every translation out there of the Bible is a paraphrase: built on through traditions! Traditions such as Elohim is name for God. Elohim: אֱלֹ =sent, הִ = the, and ים = strong right hand: means: magistrates, angles, army, or Host =Owthtzv= אוֹת צְבָ : = .
    אוֹת= flame of fire. צְבָ covering
    I have had enough of you condescending attitude and your venom.

  34. Paul D says:

    “Paul says
    Paul D., it’s possible that the book of Enoch that you call phony may have relied on sources that date back to the 10th century B.C.E.”

    Yes,yes, yes…….just almost exactly what I’ve been saying in all my posts on this subject….finally you have come to where I’ve been concerning how the post-flood Mesopotamian culture learned about the contents of the first six chapters of Genesis. REREAD MY LAST POST. I coaxed you into the contents of your above statement & VOILA, comes the dawn! Now we’re getting somewhere, finally, Paul, you’ve become a good student.

    Enoch had a pre-flood ministry, he was the scribe of scrolls he passed onto to Noah. Noah added to those scrolls the account of the flood, he gave those updated scrolls to Shem who in turn passed them through unbroken lineage to Abraham from which reference is made in Jude :14-16, are not these also the warning messages Noah was delivering to pre-flood mankind if they did not repent? All this inside the first six chapters of Genesis.

    The book of Genesis does not have one scribe only, it is a book which means “beginnings”, plural, more than one beginning, each beginning seemingly accounted for by three different scribes, Enoch, Noah & Moses. As Noah passed his updated account through the righteous lineage that began with Enoch, Shem’s lineage now becomes the unbroken lineage entrusted with Holy Writ, this culminating with the founding of the nation of Israel as Moses led those peoples out of Egypt.

    The Mesopotamian cultures had access to the Genesis account of the pre-flood world because Enoch’s lineage (Shem) living in post-flood Mesopotamia were the keepers of those documents. Anyone in post-flood Mesopotamia in contact with Shem’s lineage would of course have had access to these scrolls & learned of their contents, but evil intent being what it is decided to create its own versions of events & we have MYTHOLOGY. ……………………..Paul D

  35. Paul Ballotta says:

    Paul D., it’s possible that the book of Enoch that you call phony may have relied on sources that date back to the 10th century B.C.E. when the account in Genesis was thought to have been composed. The fact that the Dead Sea Scroll fragment of the Book of Giants lists the name of Gilgamesh as being a giant is an indication (at least to me) that this was probably taken froman old source. Gilgamesh, the king of Uruk (circa 2600 B.C.E.),fits the description of “they were heroes of old, the men of renown” (Genesis 6:5). In Genesis 11:7, it is Yahweh who says, “let us go down and confound their speech,” so that it is not improbable that divine beings need to “go down” in order to intervene in earthly affairs. There was more than one tower and each major city-state had one of those ziggarat temples in ancient Mesopotamia, each with their own god, competing with one another for influence. By keeping in conformity with the state-approved religion, people could climb up the social ladder, even if their brains were shaped like bricks and hardened in the oven. To be sure, if you listen to what you’re being told, that you can’t rely on anything that is not approved biblical canon, then you become usefull as building material in someone’s Tower of Bible.

  36. Paul D says:

    “Did not Enoch live at the time relative to sons of Elohim following their descent?”

    What are you talking about? “descent”? …………Where in Gen 6 is it stated that the “sons of elohiym” originated from anywhere in all of Elohiym’s creation other than planet earth? Give me that scripture. I continually implore you to produce scripture for all these claims you continue to make & you keep ignoring Mark 12:25 and Matt. 22:30.

    Jared’s name means “go down”…….so what, now you sound as if you’re comparing one who was in all likelihood a righteous man who had a righteous wife the mother of Enoch & you are comparing them to fallen angels. Why don’t you put forth just as much effort in comparing Mark 12:25 & Matt 22:30 to Gen 6:2 as you are attempting to insert Mesopotamian & Jewish mythology into Gen 6:2?

    The words of Christ is the template by which we can judge that which is truthful. You continue to intimate that we arrive at greater “truth” by mixing man’s mythology with the clearly stated words of Christ, eg:

    “….. not until 1 Enoch 6 was written a few centuries before Christ we’re informed that this was the case.”

    Oh, really now? This is how you clarify the words of the author (Christ) of Holy Writ? This “Enoch” book you are so fascinated with is not the same book scribed by Enoch son of Jared. Read the first six chapters of Genesis & you will have a good idea of what the real book of Enoch was about, and there is nothing in it about “fallen angels” & all this other mythology captured within the context of the “Noah” movie garnered from that phony Enoch book you just made reference to in an attempt to bolster your conclusions for a pre-determined outcome.

  37. Paul Ballotta says:

    As far as I know Paul D., the account in Genesis 6 is not explicitly stated that the sons of Elohim copulated with the daughters of men, not until 1 Enoch 6 was written a few centuries before Christ we’re informed that this was the case. A natural reaction to the influence of Greek mythology was to adapt the accounts of the gods and goddess pairing with mortals to Jewish belief. Did not Enoch live at the time relative to sons of Elohim following their descent? Enoch’s father was Jared, whose name means “go down” and it was believed that it was during his generation when the watchers descended. Just as the storm god Baal usurped the position of El, so did Zeus usurp the positon of Cronos, making Zeus, god of lightning, the leader of a rebellion in heaven, hence the statement by Jesus; “I have observed Satan fall like lightning from the sky” (Luke 10:18). The “throne of Satan” in Revelation 2:13 is the Great Alter in Pergamum, dedicated to Zeus.

  38. Paul D says:

    “Howard says
    Genesis 6:4 the paraphrase says “that these former angels had relations with the daughters of men”…….”

    @ Howard:

    Why should anyone who is a student of the original languages of the Bible care anything about what “the paraphrase” states? There is a Hebrew/Aramaic word for “angel”, and it does not appear anywhere in Gen 6:1-4, and I’ll give you another clue, the Hebrew/Aramaic word for “son(s)” is also not the same as for “angel”. That alone ought to give you some clues for what is occurring here. Get to an online edition of Strong’s Concordance & verify these things for yourself. I’m not going to do all the work here, learn to use a concordance, its a healthy exercise for a healthy spiritual life.

    The fact that Christ did not author the Hebrew/Aramaic word for “angel” in Gen 6:2, but instead authored the word “sons”, is very simply explained by Mark 12:25 and Matt. 22:30, otherwise we have Christ contradicting himself.

    I’m still waiting for yourself, or the other Paul, to produce the scripture that “fallen angels” are somehow capable of reinventing themselves with capabilities they were never created with by none other than Christ himself, that is with sex organs capable of producing sperm with which to inseminate human women, in other words re-creating themselves to become human beings. Show me a scripture that gives them that power?

    We are as we are on this earth due to our composition of DNA, you can be sure something similar is going on with the spirit bodies of which the angels are composed. Just as Christ did not give humans the capability of changing the composition of their DNA, then for what logical reason would he give angels the capacity to exchange the composition of their spirit body for that of human DNA? That stuff is the material from which “mythology” is derived.

    I know of scripture stating at the fall of certain angels from their first estate who became “bound by chains in darkness awaiting judgement”, but if they are “bound” then I feel quite assured they are not out copulating & socializing with other beings, much less humans. Do you remember the forms that progeny all earthly life takes? “After it’s own kind” (animal & human)…….., yep it’s right there in Genesis, it’s the simple reason humans cannot have relations with horses & life forms of half human & half horse are produced.

    There is a lot that could be conjectured about how pagan mythology seems to have certain parallels to the Genesis accounts up until the time just before Noahs’ Flood. One thing we do know is that pre-flood cultures had the writings of Enoch, so it is not like they had no Bible at all, they had the Book of Enoch & the ministry of Noah. We may still have some of the writings of Enoch with us today, the first six chapters of Genesis, the book of “beginnings”. Then possibly Noah & Moses added their parts to the Genesis saga which became known to the post Mesopotamian cultures prior to the construction of that infamous tower, hence begins the parallel writings of those cultures with the name of God (El) & our Biblical Old Testament Canon, the difference being that they introduced their embellishments which we today appropriately label “mythology”.

  39. Paul Ballotta says:

    I got the title wrong in my last post. It’s “Winter’s Tale” and it was published in 1984 and now 30 years later the film based on the novel came out like the beginning of the book of Ezekial; “It happened in the thirtieth year … when I was in the community of exiles by the Chebar Canal, the heavens opened and I saw visions of Elohim.”

  40. Paul Ballotta says:

    It’s also apparent that the divine appellative “Yahweh Elohim” in Genesis chapter 2 denotes a Jehovist tradition that borrows from the mythology of other belief systems as well as the book of Exodus that originally used the generic designation of the native belief system of the Canaanite pantheon of El, the Father of Mankind; as in, “they beheld Elohim, and they ate and drank” (Exodus 24:11).
    Haven’t seen “Noah” in DVD format yet, but I saw another flim that starred the same actor who played Noah. In the book, “Winter Tales” by Mark Helprin (not Mark Halperin, the conservative spin doctor), from what I remember from 3 decades ago, begins with the parents who couldn’t get through immigration at Ellis Island and place their infant like Moses in a miniature boat which was recieved by Native American Indians somewhere in the marshes of Jersey (apparently they were there in the late 19th century, according to this work of fiction).When he grew up he went to Manhattan and the first thing he did when he saw the painted ladies was perform the foot-stomping mating ritual with extended arms holding a flask of beer and raw fish which none responded to. In the movie they show a glimpse of the oyster bar where that’s all you eat, giving it that turn of the century nostalgia. The main character then falls in with a gang of crooks called “short tails” (named after there black jackets and matching hat and derby) which he eventually flees (Proverbs 1:10-19) and hides in the space above Grand Central Staiton’s main lobby that is a domed ceiling that represents the heavenly constellations and instead of focusing on safecracking he meditates on the workings of things that pertain to the structure that holds the cosmos together, which he learns from the daughter of the owner of a liberal newspaper, is light. Outside the “agents of chaos” are searching for him, whose boss is a demon incarnate and who has a fetish for not allowing his supbordinates to have a conscience, or “think about the workings of things.” This is not unlike the Dead Sea Scrolls with the war of the sons of light against the sons of dakness, the latter under the direction of the demon Belial, which means lawlessness. Thought I’d post this even though it’s fiction but there is a character in the film who defects from heaven and is like a fallen “watcher” so I’m still keeping on subject.

  41. Paul Ballotta says:

    A lot of translations on Genesis 6:1 omit the term at the beginning of the sentence; “and it came to pass.” According to the rabbinical book BT Megillah 10b, this term, “Vayhi,” (it came to pass) denotes either distress or joy. “If distress, there is none like it; if joy, there is none like it” (“The Zohar” by Daniel Matt, vol 2, p.192). This event that came to pass was “tinged ” with, according to the Rabbi in another source, woe (Zohar 119b). “The phrase ‘tinged with’ renders ‘tifsei’, based on ‘tufsa’, ‘frame, mold, mold, form, configuration,, pattern'” (The Zohar, p.192).
    So it wouldn’t be necessarily out of context if I were to “frame” the term “it came to pass” as refering to a generation like those who were raised during the Great Depression when they couldn’t have anything but produced the iconic image of Rosie the Rivetter and would signify that “the daughters of man were good.” Contrast that generation with that of Naamah (Genesis 4:22), which means beautiful, at a time when you can have anything, of which Marylin Monroe is iconic. In ancient Israel, they used clay replicas of goddesses as an inexpensive way to connect to their beliefs. The statues of Northern Israel were representations of a female anatomy, while of the goddesses of Southern Israel, many were depicted with only the upper body as having a woman’s form with the lower body reprsented by a pillar. A reflection of the wealther liberal north (Marylin) and the more conservative south (Rosie)..

  42. Paul Ballotta says:

    Howard’s interpretation is plausable and on the first point he makes he compares the “sons of Elohim” seducing the “daughters of man” with the serpent/magician seducing Eve, using the line; “you will be like Elohim knowing good and evil (Genesis 3:5)” A similar occurance happened near the end of the reign of Pharaoh Ramses III that is described in the Papyrus of Harris. It involved a conspiracy to assassinate the aging Pharaoh by an official named Hui who conspired with a woman in the Pharaoh’s harem to place her son on the throne and that this would ultimately involve many high ranking officials, all of whom were put on trial after the assassination allegedly failed. Hui resorted to magic spells to assist the conspirators and his intended targets were the overseers of the harem whom were rendered helpless and the harem women who were the recipients of an amorous spell. The “magic powers of a god” are described in the papyrus as “hindering one troop and bewitching others.”
    “Not content with endeavoring to dethrone the king by an uprising of both soldiers and civilians, Hui, a certain high official, who was the overseer of the [royal] cattle, bethought him of applying magic to help their evil designs, and with this object in view he went to some one who had access to to the king’s library, and he obtained from him a book containing formula of a magical nature, and directions for working magic. By means of this book he obtained ‘divine power,’ and he became able to cast spells upon folk” (“Egyptian Magic” by E.A. Wallis Budge, p.74).
    Recent x-rays of Ramses III’s mummy reveal that he probably died immediately from his wound:
    http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/news/pharaohs-mummy-reveals-murder-palace-intrigue/

  43. Howard West says:

    Genesis 6:4 the paraphrase says “that these former angels had relations with the daughters of men” That word “relations” is incorrect it should be TOOK, as in appropriated as rent a womb: to Clone, creation of an animal life in the womb of host with out sexual intercourse.

    Point 1 Eve listened to the Magician/Snake who instilled in her, a thirst for forbidden knowledge.

    Point 2 JESUS cast out demons. Therefore, demons can inhabit people!

    Point 3 Teslave told people that he got his insights in to electricity from demons. The inventor of photocopying also had demon tell him how to create his machine that he called Xerox after his demon. .
    Point 4 Today “men” splice DNA to create new attributes in one species from another species.

    Point 5 to Clone, is to creation of an animal in the womb of host with out sexual intercourse and is possible today.

    Therefore, the creation of Giants Without SEX is a viable concept and is probably happening as we speak.

    Howard-West / Lock Gate, The Riddle Lords Secrets

  44. Paul D says:

    @Paul from Paul D:

    Referring to your above post. I’m not particularly interested in the mysticism of cultures preceding that of ancient Israel, I know all too well about such contrivances mixing Mesopotamian culture as events paralleling the Genesis accounts. I will give those cultures some credit for their fragmentary recording of the events of the Noah Flood, but their embellishments that differ from the Genesis accounts were a result of word to mouth reminiscence of events passed down for centuries before writing was invented.

    The biggest mistake so many well intentioned people make in trying to understand the Bible is by lifting a few words out of the context into which they are written & then trying to re-insert those words into another part of the Bible that is written in a completely different context, additionally they think inserting pagan Mesopotamian mythology of pre-Noah flood accounts can do the same thing. I simply cannot conceive of the possibility that mixing the mind of Christ with the minds of men can lead to greater truth, but that’s what happened in Gen 6 where mythology of ancient cultures are being inserted to “clarify” Gen 6:2 as promulgated in the Noah movie. I simply choose to pick the Genesis accounts recorded in Bible as the clarification of pre-flood events & not the other way around.

  45. Paul Ballotta says:

    If we accept that the “sons of Elohim” are the sons of powers that be (temporal rulers), it could be that the legend of King Keret would fit the description as being the “son of El.” Like Helen of Troy there’s allegedly a woman who inspires Keret to wage a military campain with apparently little regard for civilians against Udum the Great, which has been suggested as being Edom. The woman’s name is the same as the Egyptian designation for the land of Canaan, Hurru, and the Old Testament references Hurrian people being intermarried with Edomites in the region of Mount Seir (Genesis 36:29-30). It is my opinion that it is from these and other Horites (Kharu in Egyptian records) that the Hebrews received the Mesopotamian sources for the Genesis narrative, but changed them to suit their unique way of life, Mount Ararat is distinct from the Mesopotamian versions and it’s a reference to the kingdom Urartu which spoke Hurrian.
    So King Keret can fill in the blank in regards to the original narrative; “the sons of Elohim saw that the daughters of Adam were good…” After King Keret attacks Udum, King Pabel pleads with Keret through messengers; “Vex not Udum the Great, even Udum the Grand. Udum is a gift of El, even a present of the Father of Man.” Then Keret demands that the daughter of King Pabel be given to him, to which he responds; “Return and say unto Keret: – Alright, you may have her. But we shall miss her sorely. Everybody loves her because she is the embodiment of virtue.”

  46. Paul Ballotta says:

    You are correct, Paul D., but for the sake of the general reader, it’s safe to assume that the term “sons of Elohim” can refer to the sons of the singular “God” or the plural “gods” or if you prefer, “powers.” The same applies to Genesis 1:26 when Elohim said “let us make man in our image.” The singular “God” performs the work through the agency of the “gods/powers” since we know that the father of the Canaanite gods, El, was also the maker of mankind.

  47. Paul D says:

    “Paul says
    Good exegesis, Paul D., but this debate over Elohim with a small ‘g’ (gods) and a large ‘G’ (God) is becoming like that Saturday Night Live skit spoofing a commercial advertisement where two men are arguing over over a small can; “It’s shaving cream!” “It’s whipped cream!” Then Chevy Chase steps in and says, “It’s a shaving cream AND a whipped cream!”

    No, I see you do not understand the translation & transliteration differences that occur between languages. The King James writers did their translation without benefit of the Codices that were only just beginning to be discovered in the 19th century; Sinaiticus, Vaticannus, Alexandrinus, Septuagint, Nestle, Dead Sea Scrolls, Septuagint. I have been studying the Bible from these manuscripts for a couple of decades now, I appreciate their value.

    The English language is much differently constructed than early Hebrew, Aramaic & Greek. No upper or lower case highlighting, no sentence or paragraphing structure indicating beginnings & endings of distinct topics in those early languages, it was context that fixed the start/finish points. The King James translators did not have a Strong’s Concordance, but now we do & can better discern these things.

    When you fail to understand where the English word “god” came from, it is no wonder you get confused about the proper use of lower case versus upper case use of the letter “g” when referring to “god powers” in the Bible, and for that matter the case of proper anglicization for “elohiym”. If all the translations in existence would simply revise their texts to comport with the oldest Codices concerning the diverse spellings associated with deity, a lot of confusion concerning proper usages of those terms would be set aside. Paul D.

  48. Paul Ballotta says:

    Good exegesis, Paul D., but this debate over Elohim with a small ‘g’ (gods) and a large ‘G’ (God) is becoming like that Saturday Night Live skit spoofing a commercial advertisement where two men are arguing over over a small can; “It’s shaving cream!” “It’s whipped cream!” Then Chevy Chase steps in and says, “It’s a shaving cream AND a whipped cream!”
    In the current issue of BAR (Searching for the ‘Original Bible'” by Emanuel Tov) on pages 50-52 it cites the verse from Deuteronomy 32:8 based on the King James version:
    “When the Most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel.”
    This interpretation was based on a reading from the Masoretic text. However, the original translation from the Septuagint and Qumran scroll 4QDeut reads that the nations were divided “according to the number of the sons of Elohim.” There were 70 sons of Israel that settled in Egypt (Exodus 1:5) and 70 is also the number of the Canaanite pantheon, the sons of El. The father of the Canaanite gods was also refered to as El Elyon (God Most High) and so the original interpretation of Deuteronomy 32:8 likely read:
    “The Most High (Elyon) fixed the boundaries of peoples according to the number of the sons of God (El).”
    The term God Most High probably refers to the diety in his heavenly abode, which in the case of El would be the summit of Mount Hermon, where the watchers descended after having conspired to choose wives from among the daughters of Adam (1 Enoch 6:6).
    It is interesting how the poet John Milton in the first chapter of “Paradise Lost” chose to name the fallen angels after the gods of Canaan and its environs. As for the “sons of Elohim,” it is a fact that in ancient times the king and queen would assume the role of the god/goddess in a fertility rite.

  49. Paul D says:

    “So I agree with Jesus statement in Mark 12:25 and Matt. 22:30. Who could rightly disagree with the Master.”

    …….then you move right on forward & disagree with these scriptures.

    For Example quoting you: “Genesis 6:2, are actually angels
    (see Job 38:7 where angels are called “sons of God”) who had materialized as humans so they could have their pick of earthly women for obvious purposes. As human men they were able to do all the things that humans can do. They were no longer in heaven as spirits.”

    There is nothing in all the Bible that states “angels” can have sex with humans! Show it to me. Sure the “sons of (powers) God” did, but you are having a problem discerning the Hebrew & Aramaic definition for “elohiym” (#430 & 410 Strong’s Concordance) derived from two other words 193 & 352 which translated into English means “powers, strength, magistrates, judges”.

    Frequently human rulers are referred to as “elohiym”, eg, Ex 21:6, Ex 22:8, Ex 22:9. These are obviously not elohiym (god) in heaven, it is clear from the context they are elohiym (god) residing on the planet Earth. The question becomes one of when to transliterate into English a capital “G” for “heavenly elohiym” or lower case “g” for “earthly elohiym”. The context into which the words are written determine the use of either, in Gen 6:2 the context is human “elohyim” therefore the “sons” are of human origin.

    Christ is crystal clear angels never have sex with humans under any circumstances. There is no example you can show me from scripture that angels can of their own volition become humanoid & magically generate male appendages capable of manufacturing sperm, yet this is the fiction you & the movie promote. And why do you promote it? Because you & the Noah movie are contorting Gen 6:2 “sons” into “angels” based on an English capital “g” for “God” for the Hebrew word “elohyim” for you have no standing based on the words of Christ in Mark 12:25 & Matt 22:30, in so doing you are challenging the words of Christ himself, you are suggesting you know something Christ just plain forgot about & that he needs you & the Noah movie to get him straightened out on.

  50. Gene R. Conradi says:

    Paul–I believe you mistakenly quoted what Howard said(22) not my info(21).
    But the point you bring up has to do with whether angels can co-habit with the daughters of men.
    Angels in heaven are spirit creatures, who in their heavenly form cannot perform acts of marriage. So I agree with Jesus statement in Mark 12:25 and Matt. 22:30. Who could rightly disagree with the Master.

    However, the sons of the true God, referred to at Genesis 6:2, are actually angels
    (see Job 38:7 where angels are called “sons of God”) who had materialized as humans so they could have their pick of earthly women for obvious purposes. As human men they were able to do all the things that humans can do. They were no longer in heaven as spirits. This was in direct rebellion against God’s assignment for angels. Jude 6 says: “And the angels that did not keep their original position but forsook their own proper dwelling place, he has reserved with eternal bonds in dense darkness for the judgement of the great day.” Also 2 Peter 2:4 says: “Certainly God did not refrain from punishing the angels who sinned, but threw them into(Greek) Tartarus, putting them in chains of dense darkness to be reserved for judgement. And he did not refrain from punishing an ancient world, but kept Noah, a preacher of righteousness, safe with seven others when he brought a flood upon the world of ungodly people.”

    Genesis 6:4 says that these former angels had relations with the daughters of men and produced freakish, hybrid, offspring called “Nephilim”.(Hebrew”-fellers” or those who make others fall) They were referred to as mighty ones, basically bullies who greatly increased the violence of that ancient world. They apparently were giants compared to an average man. Much later after Israelite spies returned from the land of Canaan they compared the giant men in Canaan to the ancient Nephilim of Noah’s day.
    Of course this is not the only time angels took on human flesh. The angels that visited Abraham had materialized as humans so they could be seen and give a message to Abraham. These materialized angels were able to eat like any human(Gen.18,8) and no doubt had the ability to cohabit–but of course this would be a perversion of God’s purpose for them on earth. In time two of these men went to Sodom to warn Lot of a coming destruction (Gen. 19:1 where they are called angels). At other times the angel Gabriel materialized to Daniel and to Mary. These were rare events, but God had given his angels the power to materialize as humans, a power that has evidently been taken away from the angels who sinned.

    So God did not give permission to the wicked angels of Noah’s day to take human form nor were they ever forgiven for what they did. They are now on Satan’s side and contribute greatly to the wickedness on earth today. Soon they will be removed along with the great adversary when Jehovah vindicates His Sovereignty over both heaven and earth.

  51. Paul D says:

    “Gene R, then how in the world did that writer Know (?) to give in Chapter 81, star references to about 12,500 years before Christ: with Bootees ,Ursa major and minor as seasonal constellations. The last time that happened was just after a 1000 year sea stagnation period then MWP1B and sea-level rose by 26.7 feet in 100 years and continued to rise at over a inch per years for several thousand years”

    But Gene, you continue to miss the most important issue concerning all this conjecture contained in the Noah movie. It is that the author of all that is Holy Writ has clearly stated in Mark 12:25 & Matt 22:30 that there is no sexual behavior among heavenly beings, meaning they cannot just take an afternoon jaunt to a secluded corner of the Universe & find a human woman to cavort with, it is bodily impossible for them to do so………..DO YOU GET THIS MOST IMPORTANT POINT? Please, tell me you do because if you do not I can only wonder what next off the wall commentary like #17 Steve will be forthcoming…..

  52. Howard West says:

    Gene R. says

    The Book of Enoch is an apocryphal text. It is falsely ascribed to Enoch. Produced probably sometime during the second and first centuries B.C.E.

    Gene R, then how in the world did that writer Know (?) to give in Chapter 81, star references to about 12,500 years before Christ: with Bootees ,Ursa major and minor as seasonal constellations. The last time that happened was just after a 1000 year sea stagnation period then MWP1B and sea-level rose by 26.7 feet in 100 years and continued to rise at over a inch per years for several thousand years

  53. Gene R. Conradi says:

    The Book of Enoch is an apocryphal text. It is falsely ascribed to Enoch. Produced probably sometime during the second and first centuries B.C.E.,it is a collection of extravagant and unhistorical Jewish myths, evidently the product of exegetical elaborations on the brief Genesis reference to Enoch. This alone is sufficient for lovers of God’s inspired Word to dismiss it
    Reference:Insight on the Scriptures, Vol I. Page 729. 1988

  54. Paul Ballotta says:

    Yes Paul D., there’s a vast reservoir of tradition on the subject from which a couple of references were streamlined in the book of Jude verse 6 and verses 14-15. It is thought that Genesis 6:1-4 was written in the 10th century B.C.E. and it is assumed that the folks back then would have had more information on the subject that was eventually lost. It was around the 3rd century B.C.E that the first installment of the book of Enoch was composed; the book of Watchers. It may have been a reaction to Greek influences on Jewish society known as Hellenism (named after Helen whom the Achaens allegedly conquered Troy over but was probably the goddess Helle of the strategic Hellenspont waterway whose economic importance was the reason for the Trojan war). There was also a lost book of Giants of which only a fragment remained in the Dead Sea Scrolls.
    That fact that the Gentiles had superior technology was adressed in the book of Watchers in which the watchers taught the people inventions that weren’t nesessarily beneficial if their aim was to corrupt by promoting vice. In Genesis 4:20-22 the ancestors of the trade guilds are recorded and in John Milton’s “Paradise Lost” (Book 11), the angel Michael relates to Adam after his disobediance the consequences of sin on his future descendants, who are among the “sons of God”; who forsook their spiritual wings for human desires:
    “To these that sober race of men,
    Whose lives religious titled them the sons of God,
    Shall yield up all their virtue, all their fame ignobly,
    To the trains and to the smiles of these fair atheists,
    And now swim in joy, (erelong to swim at large) and laugh;
    For which the world erelong a world of tears must weep.”

  55. Paul D says:

    “I would have to agree with commentator Howard # 11, that the book of Enoch was an authoritative source for early Christians”.

    I don’t know about “early Christians”, I know “enoch scrolls” were found among the Dead Sea Scrolls. Ever read much from that book? Talk about Greek Mythology sounding like oddballistic mysticism, Jewish mysticism is right out of the same vein of occultism, what with two “Eves” & on it goes.

  56. Paul D says:

    “The gyrations you two use to get around what the text says is laughable.”

    What gyrations? “Mark 12:25, Matt 22:30, no sex if you please, meaning no offspring”? Is this one of those “gyrations”? If you think those words of Christ are “gyrations”, what must you think of the rest of the Bible?

  57. Steve L. says:

    Paul D and Kimberly…

    You’re either Church of Christ or from a denom that has a heavy Calvinist influence.

    The gyrations you two use to get around what the text says is laughable.

  58. Paul Ballotta says:

    Paul, I would have to agree with commentator Howard # 11, that the book of Enoch was an authoritative source for early Christians. As for the church “father” Jerome, to whom we credit for translating the biblical canon into Latin, perhaps he and other church ‘fathers” had a vested interest in excluding this book. I once read where Jerome wrote to a female parishoner that he wanted to see repentant tears in her hollow cheek, which to me is a red flag that these fallen angels or watchers were perhaps religious figures who conspired to make women subserviant. We’ve seen the failed social experiments of the Taliban and other spin-off extremist movements that forbid women to work so that the leaders get to pick which ones to marry after denying them education and perpetuating a cycle of poverty.

  59. Paul D says:

    “So, what’s wrong with just sitting back and enjoying an action-packed, roller-coaster ride with “Noah”? Absolutely nothing—as long as you understand that “Noah” is a fictional account of a biblical epic—just as “Miriamne the Magdala—The First Chapter in the Yeshua and Miri Novels” is a fictional account of the Jesus’ personal relationship to Mary Magdalene during the so-called “missing years”. Both works are an artistic interpretation of the original story, retold in order to appeal to a modern audience.
    My advice … ENJOY!
    JB Richards”

    Jeanne: Bad advice, “ENJOY”. Embellished fictional thesis masquerading as “truth” does more harm to promoting the truth than if one simply comports with the clearly posited statements contained within Holy Writ. The Enoch chronicles so many have such a fetish with clearly do not comport with Holy Writ.

    Jeanne, read John 1:1, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God…..”, this is speaking of Christ himself. Christ only is the author of all of Holy Writ, anything else, though it may contain a particle of truth, only leads us further from the truth.

    Using words that are not Christ’s own cannot possibly lead one closer to the truth, such embellishments are designed to lead the reader away from the factual nature of Christ’s proclamations & not closer.

    By Christ’s own words he clearly states that heavenly beings are incapable of producing offspring through sexual relations, but what is the raging debate about this “Noah movie”? The exact opposite of Christ’s clearly worded statements, this is not a fantasy God implores the human race to “enjoy”. I know you will probably take this as an affront to your post & I don’t intend for it to sound insulting, but fantasies are a huge hinrance to the “truth”.

  60. Kurt says:

    Did Our Languages Come From the “Tower of Babel”?
    “Jehovah scattered them from there over all the surface of the earth, and they gradually left off building the city. That is why its name was called Babel, because there Jehovah had confused the language of all the earth.”—Genesis 11:8, 9.

    Did that event recorded in the Bible really happen? Did people start speaking different languages all at once, as described? Some scoff at the Bible’s account of how human languages began and spread. One author claims: “The Tower of Babel myth is definitely one of the most absurd stories ever told.” Even a Jewish rabbi called it “a naive attempt to explain the origin of nations.”
    read more:http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/wp20130901/did-languages-come-from-the-tower-of-babel/

  61. Paul D says:

    I’m Paul D. who wrote the post immediately above, please distinguish between me & the other Paul who posted in #’s 1 & 2 above.

  62. Paul D says:

    What is wrong with simply taking the words of Christ at face value: Mark 12:25, Matt 22:30, no sex if you please, meaning no offspring.

    Start your interpretation with what the Bible is crystal clear on, not what your fantasies like to indulge in. The “sons of God (Heb: powers) engaging in betrothed sex producing offspring can’t possibly be “beings” from heaven because we clearly have the words of the one who is the author of the Bible: Yeshua, Iesous Jesus, or whatever other spelling of his name be your choosing.

    The Hebrew word from which we extrapolate GOD from the German word GOTHIC is the generic Hebrew word which is POWERS. In Genesis 6 “sons of God” is literally transliterated as “sons of powers”, it becomes a matter of who the “powers” are as to whether the reference is to earthly powers or the supreme powers in heaven. In Genesis 6 the context is to earthly “powers” because the these earthly powers (god, if you please) are engaging in sex producing offspring, something heavenly powers cannot do, period.

  63. Howard West says:

    The book of Enoch, Chapters 10-12, 54-82 are told by Noah, 105 describes his birth and Chapter 81 give a star references to about 12,500 years before Christ with Bootees ,Ursa major and minor as seasonal constellations. The last time that happened was just after a 1000 year sea stagnation period then MWP1B and sea-level rose by 26.7 feet in 100 years and continued to rise at over a inch per years for several thousand years. Jesus, Jude,Peter, Daniel and other Biblical writers quote the book of Enoch. So if Jesus quotes it I don’t care what Jerome says.

  64. Shannon says:

    By the way, Aronofsky’s “Noah” is not based on Genesis or on 1 Enoch. Check this out if you really want to know where he got his ideas:

    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/geneveith/2014/04/noah-the-kabbalah-and-gnosticism/

  65. Jane Pilson says:

    I saw the movie, and then came home and reread the biblical account. I wonder if the “Nephillim” might be a memory of Neanderthals? They definitely mated with “daughters of men” according to the DNA record.

  66. Shannon says:

    I have to agree with Kurt. While the movie had my interest initially for its flood special effects and the like, the final 3rd of the movie completely ruined any entertainment value this fiction weakly based on reality may have had. Epic fail. They picture would have had some merit if the credits would have started rolling once they got on the ark. Oh well. Let’s hope Ridley Scott can keep from killing his Exodus movie.

  67. Kurt says:

    Sadly, regardless of theology or how it plays with source materials, either Biblical or extra-Biblical, turns out that it’s just a bad movie. I attempted to watch it this past weekend and had to turn it off after an hour an a half.

  68. JB Richards says:

    With the premiere of the Hollywood movie, “Noah” sailing into movie theaters all across the country, crowds are packing the theaters to enjoy this action packed summer blockbuster. It’s certainly a fun ride, but how does the movie compare to the actual story of “Noah” in the Bible?

    Well, to tell the truth, it just doesn’t hold up very well at all. From the giant “Rock Giants” who help Noah build the Ark and the murderous killing spree Noah embarks on to purge mankind of evil, to the not-so-subliminal messages against the wanton destruction of flora and fauna, the movie takes many liberties to tell a good story, but the plot-line fails to meet the biblical text.

    So, what’s wrong with just sitting back and enjoying an action-packed, roller-coaster ride with “Noah”? Absolutely nothing—as long as you understand that “Noah” is a fictional account of a biblical epic—just as “Miriamne the Magdala—The First Chapter in the Yeshua and Miri Novels” is a fictional account of the Jesus’ personal relationship to Mary Magdalene during the so-called “missing years”. Both works are an artistic interpretation of the original story, retold in order to appeal to a modern audience.

    My advice … ENJOY!
    JB Richards
    Author of “Miriamne the Magdala-The First Chapter in the Yeshua and Miri Novel Series” and Content Creator for The Miriamne Page

    For more information on this novel series, and The Miriamne Page, just click on this link: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Miriamne-the-Magdala-First-in-the-Series-of-the-Yeshua-Miri-Novels/206903979347028

  69. Penny says:

    …the Watcher’s were not ‘fallen’ until they made a conscious consensus decision to enter into the human evolutionary journey,… as a delegation of Angel’s assigned to Earth as ‘Watcher’s’, …they ‘forsook their First Estate’, and entered permanently into the ‘stream of the human story’, (genomic); by relinquishing their immortality, and status in Heaven (which they discovered was a consequence of their concensus disobedient action, so then they petitioned Enoch for intervention, mediation with God) …the Watcher’s decision, was lead by ‘Azazel’, who was a doubter of God’s sovereingty over the Earth’s evolution, and who became attracted to the desired human experience … the ‘will’ (of disobedience), towards satiating a physical desire for this activity created the distortion of the outcome…as apposed to an immaculate desire that also produced it’s own results; (also genomic); much later in the human story…

  70. Michele says:

    I saw the movie. Such a disappointment. But I’d like to talk about Genesis 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

    1st: of all if you read it again, the giants were here before the ‘sons of God’ arrived. 2nd Every other reference in the OT to ‘sons of God’ clearly refer to NOT fallen angels. So why do people think this one could mean fallen angel? And since when does God bless the evil acts of satan with ‘men of renown’? Why didn’t God call those offspring giants? Or cursed? Or something other than a man to be looked up to and admired?
    I’m not sure where this leads, but one thing I don’t believe is that the ‘union’ was not with fallen angels, but perhaps instead with God’s elite beloved angels.

  71. KImberly says:

    OR, the Bible, the book of Enoch, etc., are full of metaphor, simile, and figure of speech. Many of these things were not meant to be taken at full literal face value. The ancients loved to use symbolism to represent stories, people and events. Egyptian hieroglyphs are a great example of figurative picture language or iconography. That’s not to say that these stories are not historical accounts or that literal events and people were not involved. For example, if we review the Hebrew word for “angel”, malak, we find it doesn’t mean a supernatural being at all, but “messenger”, AND ALSO, king, priest, judge, lord, shepherd, ambassador, deputy, etc. Angels in the Bible are actually referring to “humans”. The sons of God were humans. Usually when referring to the descendants of Adam through Seth—those who walked with God.

    The constellations are also used throughout the Bible to depict a story or certain event. Ezekiel, chapter 1 is a great example of that. Also in the book of Job.

    Don’t get me wrong, I study the ancient history of all cultures, and I too, am fascinated by the ancient stone monuments, cities, and monoliths. There was obviously a very advanced culture that disappeared some 5 to 7000 years ago.

  72. Paul Ballotta says:

    What I meant to say in my previous comment is that it is the flora of post-glacier Europe that supports the fauna that the sons of Adam hunt. It was in present-day northern Sudan and southern Egypt that the first attempts at plant domestication supported large communities that endured uninterrupted for a long period of time:
    “As the prehistorian Chester Chard has pointed out, since the Middle Paleolithic, many groups were already concentrating on certain types of animals (and probably plants), so all that was needed to develope effective domestication was lots of time for trial and error experimentation and a little luck. Apparently,the late Paleolithic Egyptians posessed neither, although our evidence shows that they made an extraordinarily early attempt at domestication, and that its failure was accompanied by some rather traumatic side effects. Shortly after 13,00 B.C. grinding stones and sickle blades with glossy sheen on their bits (the result of silica from cut grass stems adhering to a sickle’s cutting edge) appear in late Paleolithic tool kits” (“Egypt Before the Pharaohs” by Michael A. Hoffman, p..88).
    It is beleived that the next attempt at plant domestication occured in the region of Gobleki Tepe, so perhaps this is the land of Nod (wandering) that Cain settled in, east of Eden (Genesis 4:16). In “Food of the Gods,” (p.74) Terrence McKenna raises the possibility that Eden was in the African Sahara as evidenced by the rock art at the Tassili Plateau in southern Algeria:
    ” The Tassili-n-Ajjer of 12,000 B.C. may well have been the partnership paradise whose loss has created one of the most persistant and poignant of our mythicalogical motifs – the nostalgia for paradise, the idea of a lost golden age of plenty, partnership, and social balance. the contention here is that the rise of language, partnership society, and complex religious ideas may have occured not far from the area where humans emerged – the game-filled, mushroom-dotted grasslands and savannahs of tropical and subtropical Africa. There the partnership society arose and flourished, there hunter-gatherer culture slowly gave way to domestication of animals and plants. In this milieu the psilocybin-containg mushrooms were encountered, consumed, and deified. Language, poetry, ritual, and thuoght emerged from the darkness of the hominid mind. Eden was not a myth – for the prehistoric peoples of the high plateau of the Tassli-n-Ajjer, Eden was home.”

  73. Paul Ballotta says:

    Haven’t seen the movie yet, but it seems to me that the stone giants are the prehistoric Stonehenge-like monuments like the site of Gobekli Tepe near modern Urfa in southeast Turkey (ancient “Ur of Kasdim,” Genesis 11:31). Believed to be the first temple yet discovered, the site was probably in use as a cult center before the temple’s construction:
    “Rising 50 feet above the surrounding plai, it certainly qualifies as a ‘high place,’ which the Hebrew Bible so often associates with religious rituals and early encounters with God” (“Religion at the Dawn of Civilization” by Ben Witherington III, BAR, Jan./Feb 2013, p.58).
    There is a problem with the chronology of period when this temple was in use (9500-8000 B.C.E.) because this occurs prior to the advent of farming and animal husbandry which were already established by Cain and Abel. In the Sumerian myth “Cattle and Grain,” the first generation of the gods known as Anunnaki (sky gods), “knew not the eating of bread, knew not the dressing of garments, ate plants with their mouth like sheep, drank water from the ditch.”
    If we were to read into the text of Genesis 6:1 as if it applied to the period at the end of the Paleolithithic (known as the Epipaleolithic), it would start; “And it came to pass…” (the last ice age came to an end), “…when men began to increase on the ground…” (the retreating ice sheet allows fauna to flourish that supported animal life that provided hunting ground for men), “…and daughters were born to them…” (the division of labor between sexes with woman gathering wild plants).
    Somebody went to the trouble of reading into the book of Genesis to describe Gobekli Tepe:
    http://www.andrewcollins.com/page/articles/Gobekli_Tepe_interview.htm
    The standing stone inscribed with a human with wings may represent one of the “sons of God” in Genesis 6:2, or “Anunnaki.” The Nephilim (fallen ones) in Genesis 6:4, otherwise known as the giants, might actually be represented by a 17.5 foot tall standing stone carved in a stylized manner with the ceremonial attire worn by priests at that time. Perhaps this powerful priest was regarded as “infallible” since his stature was as tall as the temple itself.

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73 Responses

  1. Amy Griffin says:

    The movie provided me with more truth that it is all fairytales. Nothing but stories that have been passed down since humans drew on cave walls.

  2. Stephen Funck says:

    Many cultures have flood stories. They saw sea shells and huge bones in the rocks on top of the mountains. Stories in time grow more complex, the simple are earlier. Genesis is simple It is not a simplification of the older but the ur-story before. All the religions around have creation, source of evil and flood stories. They cannot be omitted by a “true” God and remain credible. Standing stones seeming to represent gods are all over, the earliest without faces. Gods with names and images would not evolve into nameless imageless deities. Moses met a god with no image and no name “I am = Being. That ur-god would evolves into the many. A god with out time, perfect, without blame for evil and death, rescuer, redeemer, with out human merit, because of His essence Divine Love. That is not inventible by human minds.Triune, dual nature, logically impossible, no real God is similar to anything we can imagine. Believe it or not!

  3. joseph says:

    I’m not going to get deep on this conversation, but would like to put my 2 cents worth in. I was really disappointed in this movie, I was hoping it would be more factual than it was. It was off the WORD. Hollywood (little Babylon) at it’s best. It takes a little truth and distorts it with lies. The last great religious movie made in Hollywood was researched, and directed by Cecil B Demille.

  4. Andrew says:

    This is a quote from your article:
    When Enoch confronts the Watchers about their impending doom, they implore him to intercede on their behalf. He agrees—but to no avail.”
    In fact, Noah implored all mankind to escape the flood. He built an ark with room for more. Everybody heard his predictions of destruction.
    Nobody responded.
    Nobody asked for prayer.
    Nobody cared.
    It wasn’t until God poured out His wrath that they cared
    And by then it was too late.
    The door to the ark had been firmly shut by God.
    Nobody could open it.
    The only option that led to life was on the ark and they all gave it a pass.
    God saved His faithful servant and washed the earth clean. Noah was off to a new start with his family and a heap of animals that fared a lot better than live trading sheep bound for the Middle East.
    God is starting near His ark today. It is a 2000 year old cross that bridges the gap between God and man. The only way, as Jesus said. Don’t accept counterfeits.
    He loves you.
    Jesus died for you.
    Eternity is in the balance.

  5. Andrew says:

    The director of this misleading film is a reknown atheist. In his own words it is the most unbiblical biblical film ever made. So much for questioning “facts from the film”.
    Do yourself a favour.
    Grab your bible.
    Check out the story in Genesis.
    ONLY reliable source.

  6. dannyhood says:

    It’s all happy. Noah’s life was hard nothing happy about building an ark middle of nowhere. I sure God gave some joy to him , very little, when job was finished, when Noah got drunk .

  7. dannyhood says:

    Movies suck nowadays. Hollywood doesnt follow book of genesis or enoch. I havent seen this movie but I know its just gonna suck.

  8. Jake says:

    Nice introduction to a topic which can be quite confusing – a lot of different rabbit holes and a lot of strange interpretations that seem to stray farther and farther from the simple reading of the text and straightforward analysis of historical texts that reference the event described in Genesis 6.
    A few people have attempted to novelize it, in order to cut through the fog and present a realistic scenario that harmonizes the Biblical account with the myths attached to it. Check out ‘The Descent of the Gods’ at http://www.thedescentofthegods.com for example.

  9. psychic Uses Parts says:

    Hi to all, the contents present at this site
    are truly awesome for people knowledge, well, keep up the good work fellows.

  10. JCs says:

    You should CLARIFY that they was not in the original story of the Bible
    When I click on them tags on search that come up first yours comes up with them which is misleading many- The fallen angels didn’t help Noah build that Ark nor was there a stowaway- Here is the True Account- https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Genesis-Chapter-6/ can read forward and can ready back- No Giants helping Noe-

  11. Phil says:

    B.C.E.? Nice way to lose your readers in the opening paragraphs.

  12. NekiTaku says:

    It’s a movie made by a Satanist. Why wouldn’t they show the giants as good guys, helping God’s chosen?

    It’s just a twisty tongue retelling of an ancient tale.

  13. 144 says:

    think you the creator has no more light? think you that thousands of bibles did not exist before you found this one? think not that the bible was changed and libraries burnt down? think you not that the bible has huge gaps and contradictions and clearly states IT IS SEALED SEVEN TIMES ;7 TIMES CODEX. Unsealing it is a REVELATION AND SHOCKING. IF YOU AREN’T SHOCKED YOU HAVEN’T UNSEALED IT. You are following mainstream answers. NO ONE PUTS THE KEY TO HIDDEN TREASURES IN PUBLIC UNLESS THEY FIRST ENCODE IT FOR ONLY THE WORTHY ARE WORTHY , THE TRUE SEEKERS.

    THE PUBLIC ANSWERS ARE FOR EVERYONE, THE MASSES, THE PRIVATE ANSWERS ARE HIDDEN AS ITS SAYS IN BIBLE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN IS LIKE THE FIELD WHICH WHEN THE MAN FOUND THE TREASURE HE HID AGAIN AND BOUGHT THE FIELD. FOOLISH PEOPLE!!!! NO ONE CAN GIVE YOU ANSWERS. TREASURES ARE SOUGHT FOR AND PEARLS NOT GIVEN TO SWINE.

    SEEK AND FIND.

  14. 144 says:

    THE MOVIE OF NOAH IS ENCODED FOR THOSE WITH EYES TO SEE AND EARS TO HEAR BUT THE FOOLS WILL THINK THEIR BELIEFS ARE RIGHT AND THUS IGNORE, SECRETS IN PLAIN SIGHT. FOOLISH PEOPLE OF EARTH AS DA VINCI SAID, BLINDING IGNORANCE DOES MISLEAD YOU.

  15. Rebecca Lauzon says:

    Thank you for putting this in print. I’ve never heard or read anything from this “Book of Enoch” and find it very interesting. Something to pursude deeper.

  16. Book of enoch says:

    Book of enoch
    VI-XI. The Fall of the Angels: the Demoralisation of Mankind: the Intercession of the Angels on behalf of Mankind. The Dooms pronounced by God on the Angels: the Messianic Kingdom (a Noah fragment).
    CHAPTER VI.
    1. And it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied that in those days were born unto them beautiful and comely daughters. 2. And the angels, the children of the heaven, saw and lusted after them, and said to one another: ‘Come, let us choose us wives from among the children of men and beget us children.’ 3. And Semjâzâ, who was their leader, said unto them: ‘I fear ye will not indeed agree to do this deed, and I alone shall have to pay the penalty of a great sin.’ 4. And they all answered
    p. 35
    him and said: ‘Let us all swear an oath, and all bind ourselves by mutual imprecations not to abandon this plan but to do this thing.’ 5. Then sware they all together and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it. 6. And they were in all two hundred; who descended ⌈in the days⌉ of Jared on the summit of Mount Hermon, and they called it Mount Hermon, because they had sworn and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it. 7. And these are the names of their leaders: Sêmîazâz, their leader, Arâkîba, Râmêêl, Kôkabîêl, Tâmîêl, Râmîêl, Dânêl, Êzêqêêl, Barâqîjâl, Asâêl, Armârôs, Batârêl, Anânêl, Zaqîêl, Samsâpêêl, Satarêl, Tûrêl, Jômjâêl, Sariêl. 8. These are their chiefs of tens.
    CHAPTER VII.
    1. And all the others together with them took unto themselves wives, and each chose for himself one, and they began to go in unto them and to defile themselves with them, and they taught them charms and enchantments, and the cutting of roots, and made them acquainted with plants. 2. And they became pregnant, and they bare great giants, whose height was three thousand ells: 3. Who consumed all the acquisitions of men. And when men could no longer sustain them, 4. the giants turned against them and devoured mankind. 5. And they began to sin against birds, and beasts, and reptiles, and fish, and to devour one another’s flesh, and drink the blood. 6. Then the earth laid accusation against the lawless CHAPTER VIII.
    1. And Azâzêl taught men to make swords, and knives, and shields, and breastplates, and made known to them the metals 〈of the earth〉 and the art of working them, and bracelets, and ornaments, and the use of antimony, and the beautifying of the eyelids, and all kinds of costly stones, and all colouring tinctures. 2. And there arose much godlessness, and they committed fornication, and they were led astray, and became corrupt in all their ways. Semjâzâ taught enchantments, and root-cuttings, Armârôs the resolving of enchantments, Barâqîjâl,
    p. 36
    [paragraph continues]
    (taught) astrology, Kôkabêl the constellations, Ezêqêêl the knowledge of the clouds, 〈Araqiêl the signs of the earth, Shamsiêl the signs of the sun〉, and Sariêl the course of the moon. And as men perished, they cried, and their cry went up to heaven . . .
    CHAPTER IX.
    1. And then Michael, Uriel, Raphael, and Gabriel looked down from heaven and saw much blood being shed upon the earth, and all lawlessness being wrought upon the earth. 2. And they said one to another: ‘The earth made †without inhabitant cries the voice of their crying† up to the gates of heaven. 3 ⌈⌈And now to you, the holy ones of heaven⌉⌉, the souls of men make their suit, saying, “Bring our cause before the Most High.”.’ 4. And they said to the Lord of the ages: ‘Lord of lords, God of gods, King of kings, 〈and God of the ages〉, the throne of Thy glory (standeth) unto all the generations of the ages, and Thy name holy and glorious and blessed unto all the ages! 5. Thou hast made all things, and power over all things hast Thou: and all things are naked and open in Thy sight, and Thou seest all things, and nothing can hide itself from Thee. 6. Thou seest what Azâzêl hath done, who hath taught all unrighteousness on earth and revealed the eternal secrets which were (preserved) in heaven, which men were striving to learn: 7. And Semjâzâ, to whom Thou hast given authority to bear rule over his associates. 8. And they have gone to the daughters of men upon the earth, and have slept with the women, and have defiled themselves, and revealed to them all kinds of sins. 9. And the women have borne giants, and the whole earth has thereby been filled with blood and unrighteousness. 10. And now, behold, the souls of those who have died are crying and making their suit to the gates of heaven, and their lamentations have ascended: and cannot cease because of the lawless deeds which are wrought on the earth. 11. And Thou knowest all things before they come to pass, and
    p. 37
    [paragraph continues]
    Thou seest these things and Thou dost suffer them, and Thou dost not say to us what we are to do to them in regard to these.’

    CHAPTER X.
    1. Then said the Most High, the Holy and Great One spake, and sent Uriel to the son of Lamech, and said to him: 2. ‘〈Go to Noah〉 and tell him in my name “Hide thyself!” and reveal to him the end that is approaching: that the whole earth will be destroyed, and a deluge is about to come upon the whole earth, and will destroy all that is on it. 3. And now instruct him that he may escape and his seed may be preserved for all the generations of the world.’ 4. And again the Lord said to Raphael: ‘Bind Azâzêl hand and foot, and cast him into the darkness: and make an opening in the desert, which is in Dûdâêl, and cast him therein. 5. And place upon him rough and jagged rocks, and cover him with darkness, and let him abide there for ever, and cover his face that he may not see light. 6. And on the day of the great judgement he shall be cast into the fire. And heal the earth which the angels have corrupted, and proclaim the healing of the earth, that they may heal the plague, and that all the children of men may not perish through all the secret things that the Watchers have disclosed and have taught their sons. 8. And the whole earth has been corrupted through the works that were taught by Azâzêl: to him ascribe all sin.’ 9. And to Gabriel said the Lord: ‘Proceed against the bastards and the reprobates, and against the children of fornication: and destroy [the children of fornication and] the children of the Watchers from amongst men [and cause them to go forth]: send them one against the other that they may destroy each other in battle: for length of days shall they not have. 10. And no request that they (i.e. their fathers) make of thee shall be granted unto their fathers on their behalf; for they hope to live an eternal life, and that each one of them will live five hundred years.’ 11. And the Lord said unto Michael: ‘Go, bind Semjâzâ and his associates who have united themselves with women so as to have defiled themselves with them in all their uncleanness. 12. And when their sons have slain one another, and they have seen the destruction of their beloved ones, bind them fast for seventy generations in the valleys of the earth, till the day of their judgement and of their consummation, till the judgement that is for ever and ever is consummated. 13. In those days they shall be led off to the abyss of fire: 〈and〉 to the torment and the prison in which they shall be confined for ever. And whosoever shall be condemned and destroyed will from thenceforth be bound together with them to the end of all generations. 15. And destroy all the spirits of the reprobate and the children of the Watchers, because they have wronged mankind. Destroy all wrong from the face of the earth and let every evil work come to an end: and let the plant of righteousness and truth appear: ⌈and it shall prove a blessing; the works of righteousness and truth⌉ shall be planted in truth and joy for evermore.
    17 And then shall all the righteous escape,
And shall live till they beget thousands of children,
And all the days of their youth and their old age
Shall they complete in peace.
    18 And then shall the whole earth be tilled in righteousness, and shall all be planted with trees and be full of blessing. 19. And all desirable trees shall be planted on it, and they shall plant vines on it: and the vine which they plant thereon shall yield wine in abundance, and as for all the seed which is sown thereon each measure (of it) shall bear a thousand, and each measure of olives shall yield ten presses of oil. 20. And cleanse thou the earth from all oppression, and from all unrighteousness, and from all sin, and from all godlessness: and all the uncleanness that is wrought upon the earth destroy from off the earth. 21. ⌈And all the children of men shall become righteous⌉, and all nations shall
    p. 39
    offer adoration and shall praise Me, and all shall worship Me. And the earth shall be cleansed from all defilement, and from all sin, and from all punishment, and from all torment, and I will never again send (them) upon it from generation to generation and for ever.

    CHAPTER XV.
    1. And He answered and said to me, and I heard His voice: ‘Fear not, Enoch, thou righteous man and scribe of righteousness: approach hither and hear my voice. 2. And go, say to ⌈⌈the Watchers of heaven⌉⌉, who have sent thee to intercede ⌈⌈for them: “You should intercede”⌉⌉ for men, and not men for you: 3. Wherefore have ye left the high, holy, and eternal heaven, and lain with women, and defiled yourselves with the daughters of men and taken to yourselves wives, and done like the children of earth, and begotten giants (as your) sons? 4. And
    p. 43
    though ye were holy, spiritual, living the eternal life, you have defiled yourselves with the blood of women, and have begotten (children) with the blood of flesh, and, as the childrenof men, have lusted after flesh and blood as those ⌈also⌉ do who die and perish. 5. Therefore have I given them wives also that they might impregnate them, and beget children by them, that thus nothing might be wanting to them on earth. 6. But you were ⌈formerly⌉ spiritual, living the eternal life, and immortal for all generations of the world. 7. And therefore I have not appointed wives for you; for as for the spiritual ones of the heaven, in heaven is their dwelling. 8. And now, the giants, who are produced from the spirits and flesh, shall be called evil spirits upon the earth, and on the earth shall be their dwelling. 9. Evil spirits have proceeded from their bodies; because they are born from men, ⌈⌈and⌉⌉ from the holy Watchers is their beginning and primal origin; ⌈they shall be evil spirits on earth, and⌉ evil spirits shall they be called. [10. As for the spirits of heaven, in heaven shall be their dwelling, but as for the spirits of the earth which were born upon the earth, on the earth shall be their dwelling.] 11. And the spirits of the giants afflict, oppress, destroy, attack, do battle, and work destruction on the earth, and cause trouble: they take no food, ⌈but nevertheless hunger⌉ and thirst, and cause offences. And these spirits shall rise up against the children of men and against the women, because they have proceeded ⌈from them⌉.

  17. Bill says:

    Why in the world are you trying to twist scripture to fit a movie that had elements not based on scripture?

  18. Edward says:

    Edward Gontar My Wife and I left the theater shortly after they “introduced” the Rock Demons. The Blasphemous movie was Satan’s way of twisting the truth of scripture and making the ignorant feel some sort of “sympathy” toward the Demons. Making them out to be “hard done by” and or the “Saviors”. Wow what a joke. I am sure the Creator and our Lord were not impressed with it either.

  19. Sam says:

    This was the worst article, you went back and forth without answering anything

  20. Doug Elwell says:

    This movie was little more than the cinematic equivalent of a bad midrash directed by a very foolish man.

  21. Benoni Saratorio says:

    Thank you very much. I am so excited to know more. Shalom.

  22. Carl Oredson says:

    Why are you trying to make the movie Noah fit with the Bible? Shouldn’t you instead just say that the movie took liberties?
    The nephilim have never been depicted as rock giants anywhere else than in this movie, so why even try to make it work with the bible?

  23. jesus says:

    I have made a series titled ‘Book of Enoch Warnings for the last Generation’ Watchers Nephilim Giants & Fallen Angels Explained
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGL0sfKNR5w&list=PLV7Wy_Z8JeGiJfWIQkXTyDVTaCdfnxAqx for people who are interested in getting more info about the Watchers, Nephilim, Rephaim Giants & Fallen Angels before Noah’s flood. I think that Enoch writings are key source to understand what happened in the past, in that way we will be able to understand what’s coming in the future because Jesus said that the last times will be like in the days of Noah, and according to Enoch and the book of Genesis, giants, nephilim, rephaim & fallen angels were on earth in those days, and will be again for the coming of the son of men.

  24. jesus says:

    I have made a series called ‘Book of Enoch Warnings for the last Generation’ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGL0sfKNR5w&list=PLV7Wy_Z8JeGiJfWIQkXTyDVTaCdfnxAqx for people who are interested in getting more info about the Watchers, Nephilim, Rephaim Giants & Fallen Angels before Noah’s flood. I think that Enoch writings are key to understand what happened in the past, in that way we will be able to understand what’s coming in the future because Jesus said that the last times will be like in the days of Noah, and according to Enoch and the book of Genesis, giants, nephilim, rephaim & fallen angels were on earth in those days.

  25. Shayne says:

    “The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things that are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law.” Deuteronomy 29:29.

    We don’t know everything that has happened, only what has been revealed to us. The important thing is Jesus Christ died, rose again, and Has given eternal life to those who have put their faith in Him.

  26. Doug Matthews says:

    Hear, hear, Douglas #47!
    All the above commentary is pedantic and laborious and far too serious by many who take themselves very seriously.

    This is Hollywood, the land of make-believe, the realm of fiction, the empire of pretend, for God’s sake. If Hollywood can screw up WWII movies, with tons of factual, documented evidence to rely on, what do you expect the celluloid folks to do with a Bible story?
    Chill out!

  27. Douglas says:

    I have been studying the Bible in depth; with various translations and original languages, for nearly 30yrs. I don’t think that the author of the movie script was intending on conveying a truth exactly as recorded in the Bible. It is what it is; a Hollywood film that used a story from the Bible as it basis, but also including some ideas and concepts from ancient Sumerian/Akkadian epics. This is called poetic license, and there is nothing wrong with it. It made the story very interesting; giving the viewer something to think about. And, who knows; it might even cause some people to study the truth of the Biblical text?!?!

  28. Paul Ballotta says:

    Somebody obviously knew what they were doing when they made this film. The creation sequence is consistant with modern physics regarding the origin of the universe on the first day of creation. In a New York Times article from September 14, 2008 entitled “”The Boom in Galaxies After the Big Bang,” it speaks of the first generation of stars:
    “Calculations suggest that the first stars to form, out of hydrogen and helium produced in the Big Bang, would be 100 times as massive as the Sun and would rapidly explode, scattering heavier elements like oxygen, carbon, nitrogen and iron – the stuff of planets and life – into space to serve as material for a new generation of stars.”
    This is consistant with God’s explanation to Job about the building material used to construct the earth, “when the morning stars sang together, and the sons of Elohim shouted for joy” (Job 38:7).

  29. Paul Ballotta says:

    Thank you Gene B. for that elaboration. Perhaps then it was the first generation of giants who were indeed “mighty ones” in their ability to construct the temple at Gobekli Tepe at a time when humans were hunter-gatherers. Fast forward to another generation of giants who built cities like Gilgamesh and like the pillar at Gobekli Tepe that represented a priest, Gilgamesh also officiated in ceremonial priestly garb and it was said that he was 2/3 god. The standing stones at Gobekli Tepe were carved in the form of predatory creatures the significance of which eludes us. Perhaps they learned to harness this power of the creatures over and against the people they controlled so that when the agricultural revolution began, people covered the site with debris, imprisoning the harmful spirits. Gilgamesh was said to have waged military campaigns and the extended tours of duty caused an outcry among the people of Uruk and this is the setting in which Enkidu arrives from the wilderness; “He, Enkidu, and his beasts had intruded on the stalker’s place” (tablet 1 column 2). Enkidu would be the only one who could challenge Gilgamesh, who relied on his physical prowess to bully people. The two become friends and embarked on an expedition for timber (which, according to Gene B.’s comment #24 made Gigamesh a nephilim, or “feller”) and they kill the guardian of the cedar forest which brings a decree from the gods that Enkidu must die. Then Enkidu regrets being seduced by the woman who lured him to civilization by first giving him wine so that he was out of touch with nature. Thus, in this context, the vine represented the tree of knowledge that introduces primitive man to civilization while the pristine cedars of the forrest is the tree of life. This role is reversed in the non-canonical book, “The Shepherd of Hermes.” In chapter 51 the elm tree symbolizes the rich person that doesn.t produce fuit; “the rich person has money, but is poor towards the Lord, since he is distracted by his wealth.” It gos on to describe a type of symbiotic relationship between the elm and the vine (not unlike Gilgamesh and Enkidu) so that the vine entwines itself aroun the elm, enabling it to bear fruit, which it couldn’t do lying on the ground. I think that is the moral lesson of the rock giants in “Noah.” In the “Enuma Elish” the Anunnaki gods are assigned by Marduk to their respective sphere of influence, with 300 assigned to the sky and 300 assigned over the earth. 300 is the height of the giants in 1 Enoch 7:2 and 300 cubits is the length of Noah’s ark (Genesis 6:15).

  30. Gene R. Conradi says:

    “God did not hold back from punishing the ANGELS THAT SINNED….delivered them to PITS OF DENSE DARKNESS, to be reserved for judgement,and did not hold back from punishing an ancient world……. when He brought a deluge.” (2 Peter 2:4, 5)

    “And the angels that did not keep their ORIGINAL POSITION but forsook their own PROPER DWELLING PLACE he has reserved with ETERNAL BONDS under dense darkness for the judgement of the great day.” (Jude 6)

    “……. he (Jesus) went his way and preached to the spirits in PRISON, who had once been DISOBEDIENT when the patience of God was waiting in NOAH’S DAYS, while the ark was being constructed, in which a few people,that is eight souls, were carried safely through the water.” (1 Peter 3:19, 20)

    “Then the SONS OF GOD (ANGELS—–SEPTUAGINT) began to notice the DAUGHTERS OF MAN , that they were good looking; and they went taking wives for themselves, namely, all whom they chose. The NEPHILIM (gi’gantes -giants-Septuagint) PROVED TO BE IN THE EARTH IN THOSE DAYS, and also after that, when the Sons of God CONTINUED to have relations with the daughters of men and they bore sons to them, they were the “mighty ones”(gi’gantes-giants–Septuagint) who were of old, the men of fame(but still men, not Hollywood’s imaginary rock creatures)

  31. Paul Ballotta says:

    Paul D. while I agree that there were written traditions that were passed down through the line of Shem to Abraham, the book of Genesis as we have it now wasn’t composed until the period of the early monarchy and the 5th chapter of Genesis wasn’t composed until after the return from Bablylonian captivity during 5th century B.C.E,. by the same priestly authors who composed the 1st chapter of Genesis. Hence the emphasis on humans being made in the image of God (Genesis 1:26, 5:1) after their experiance in exile among a populace who were mental slaves under the state-approved religion. Interestingly, the Jews did have an anecdote; Genesis chapter 11, that was reflected in the writings of Second Isaiah. The verse from Genesi 11:7, “Come, let us go down and confound their language there…” contains the Hebrew word ‘neredah’ (go down) and except for the vowel points, is similar to the word for nard; ‘nerd.’ Mentioned in Song of Songs 4:16, nard is a perfumed oil that was imported from India via Persia, and it’s possible that this descent was like the flowing down of ointment (Matthew 26:7).

  32. Paul D says:

    “I have had enough of you condescending attitude and your venom”.

    ……being studiously accurate is not condescending & most especially not venomous. What does making such a statement say about yourself & your attitude not only towards others but about the Bible itself? The Pharisees did not like Jesus questioning their authority over scripture & obviously you do not like my approach at getting at the truth, you are simply taking my approach as a challenge to your self perceived authority, get over yourself………. Paul D.

  33. Howard West says:

    וַיִּרְאוּ בְנֵי-הָאֱלֹהִים אֶת-בְּנוֹת הָאָדָם, כִּי טֹבֹת הֵנָּה; וַיִּקְחוּ לָהֶם נָשִׁים, מִכֹּל אֲשֶׁר בָּחָרוּ.
    Paul says
    “Why should anyone who is a student of the original languages of the Bible care anything about what “the paraphrase” states?

    Every translation out there of the Bible is a paraphrase: built on through traditions! Traditions such as Elohim is name for God. Elohim: אֱלֹ =sent, הִ = the, and ים = strong right hand: means: magistrates, angles, army, or Host =Owthtzv= אוֹת צְבָ : = .
    אוֹת= flame of fire. צְבָ covering
    I have had enough of you condescending attitude and your venom.

  34. Paul D says:

    “Paul says
    Paul D., it’s possible that the book of Enoch that you call phony may have relied on sources that date back to the 10th century B.C.E.”

    Yes,yes, yes…….just almost exactly what I’ve been saying in all my posts on this subject….finally you have come to where I’ve been concerning how the post-flood Mesopotamian culture learned about the contents of the first six chapters of Genesis. REREAD MY LAST POST. I coaxed you into the contents of your above statement & VOILA, comes the dawn! Now we’re getting somewhere, finally, Paul, you’ve become a good student.

    Enoch had a pre-flood ministry, he was the scribe of scrolls he passed onto to Noah. Noah added to those scrolls the account of the flood, he gave those updated scrolls to Shem who in turn passed them through unbroken lineage to Abraham from which reference is made in Jude :14-16, are not these also the warning messages Noah was delivering to pre-flood mankind if they did not repent? All this inside the first six chapters of Genesis.

    The book of Genesis does not have one scribe only, it is a book which means “beginnings”, plural, more than one beginning, each beginning seemingly accounted for by three different scribes, Enoch, Noah & Moses. As Noah passed his updated account through the righteous lineage that began with Enoch, Shem’s lineage now becomes the unbroken lineage entrusted with Holy Writ, this culminating with the founding of the nation of Israel as Moses led those peoples out of Egypt.

    The Mesopotamian cultures had access to the Genesis account of the pre-flood world because Enoch’s lineage (Shem) living in post-flood Mesopotamia were the keepers of those documents. Anyone in post-flood Mesopotamia in contact with Shem’s lineage would of course have had access to these scrolls & learned of their contents, but evil intent being what it is decided to create its own versions of events & we have MYTHOLOGY. ……………………..Paul D

  35. Paul Ballotta says:

    Paul D., it’s possible that the book of Enoch that you call phony may have relied on sources that date back to the 10th century B.C.E. when the account in Genesis was thought to have been composed. The fact that the Dead Sea Scroll fragment of the Book of Giants lists the name of Gilgamesh as being a giant is an indication (at least to me) that this was probably taken froman old source. Gilgamesh, the king of Uruk (circa 2600 B.C.E.),fits the description of “they were heroes of old, the men of renown” (Genesis 6:5). In Genesis 11:7, it is Yahweh who says, “let us go down and confound their speech,” so that it is not improbable that divine beings need to “go down” in order to intervene in earthly affairs. There was more than one tower and each major city-state had one of those ziggarat temples in ancient Mesopotamia, each with their own god, competing with one another for influence. By keeping in conformity with the state-approved religion, people could climb up the social ladder, even if their brains were shaped like bricks and hardened in the oven. To be sure, if you listen to what you’re being told, that you can’t rely on anything that is not approved biblical canon, then you become usefull as building material in someone’s Tower of Bible.

  36. Paul D says:

    “Did not Enoch live at the time relative to sons of Elohim following their descent?”

    What are you talking about? “descent”? …………Where in Gen 6 is it stated that the “sons of elohiym” originated from anywhere in all of Elohiym’s creation other than planet earth? Give me that scripture. I continually implore you to produce scripture for all these claims you continue to make & you keep ignoring Mark 12:25 and Matt. 22:30.

    Jared’s name means “go down”…….so what, now you sound as if you’re comparing one who was in all likelihood a righteous man who had a righteous wife the mother of Enoch & you are comparing them to fallen angels. Why don’t you put forth just as much effort in comparing Mark 12:25 & Matt 22:30 to Gen 6:2 as you are attempting to insert Mesopotamian & Jewish mythology into Gen 6:2?

    The words of Christ is the template by which we can judge that which is truthful. You continue to intimate that we arrive at greater “truth” by mixing man’s mythology with the clearly stated words of Christ, eg:

    “….. not until 1 Enoch 6 was written a few centuries before Christ we’re informed that this was the case.”

    Oh, really now? This is how you clarify the words of the author (Christ) of Holy Writ? This “Enoch” book you are so fascinated with is not the same book scribed by Enoch son of Jared. Read the first six chapters of Genesis & you will have a good idea of what the real book of Enoch was about, and there is nothing in it about “fallen angels” & all this other mythology captured within the context of the “Noah” movie garnered from that phony Enoch book you just made reference to in an attempt to bolster your conclusions for a pre-determined outcome.

  37. Paul Ballotta says:

    As far as I know Paul D., the account in Genesis 6 is not explicitly stated that the sons of Elohim copulated with the daughters of men, not until 1 Enoch 6 was written a few centuries before Christ we’re informed that this was the case. A natural reaction to the influence of Greek mythology was to adapt the accounts of the gods and goddess pairing with mortals to Jewish belief. Did not Enoch live at the time relative to sons of Elohim following their descent? Enoch’s father was Jared, whose name means “go down” and it was believed that it was during his generation when the watchers descended. Just as the storm god Baal usurped the position of El, so did Zeus usurp the positon of Cronos, making Zeus, god of lightning, the leader of a rebellion in heaven, hence the statement by Jesus; “I have observed Satan fall like lightning from the sky” (Luke 10:18). The “throne of Satan” in Revelation 2:13 is the Great Alter in Pergamum, dedicated to Zeus.

  38. Paul D says:

    “Howard says
    Genesis 6:4 the paraphrase says “that these former angels had relations with the daughters of men”…….”

    @ Howard:

    Why should anyone who is a student of the original languages of the Bible care anything about what “the paraphrase” states? There is a Hebrew/Aramaic word for “angel”, and it does not appear anywhere in Gen 6:1-4, and I’ll give you another clue, the Hebrew/Aramaic word for “son(s)” is also not the same as for “angel”. That alone ought to give you some clues for what is occurring here. Get to an online edition of Strong’s Concordance & verify these things for yourself. I’m not going to do all the work here, learn to use a concordance, its a healthy exercise for a healthy spiritual life.

    The fact that Christ did not author the Hebrew/Aramaic word for “angel” in Gen 6:2, but instead authored the word “sons”, is very simply explained by Mark 12:25 and Matt. 22:30, otherwise we have Christ contradicting himself.

    I’m still waiting for yourself, or the other Paul, to produce the scripture that “fallen angels” are somehow capable of reinventing themselves with capabilities they were never created with by none other than Christ himself, that is with sex organs capable of producing sperm with which to inseminate human women, in other words re-creating themselves to become human beings. Show me a scripture that gives them that power?

    We are as we are on this earth due to our composition of DNA, you can be sure something similar is going on with the spirit bodies of which the angels are composed. Just as Christ did not give humans the capability of changing the composition of their DNA, then for what logical reason would he give angels the capacity to exchange the composition of their spirit body for that of human DNA? That stuff is the material from which “mythology” is derived.

    I know of scripture stating at the fall of certain angels from their first estate who became “bound by chains in darkness awaiting judgement”, but if they are “bound” then I feel quite assured they are not out copulating & socializing with other beings, much less humans. Do you remember the forms that progeny all earthly life takes? “After it’s own kind” (animal & human)…….., yep it’s right there in Genesis, it’s the simple reason humans cannot have relations with horses & life forms of half human & half horse are produced.

    There is a lot that could be conjectured about how pagan mythology seems to have certain parallels to the Genesis accounts up until the time just before Noahs’ Flood. One thing we do know is that pre-flood cultures had the writings of Enoch, so it is not like they had no Bible at all, they had the Book of Enoch & the ministry of Noah. We may still have some of the writings of Enoch with us today, the first six chapters of Genesis, the book of “beginnings”. Then possibly Noah & Moses added their parts to the Genesis saga which became known to the post Mesopotamian cultures prior to the construction of that infamous tower, hence begins the parallel writings of those cultures with the name of God (El) & our Biblical Old Testament Canon, the difference being that they introduced their embellishments which we today appropriately label “mythology”.

  39. Paul Ballotta says:

    I got the title wrong in my last post. It’s “Winter’s Tale” and it was published in 1984 and now 30 years later the film based on the novel came out like the beginning of the book of Ezekial; “It happened in the thirtieth year … when I was in the community of exiles by the Chebar Canal, the heavens opened and I saw visions of Elohim.”

  40. Paul Ballotta says:

    It’s also apparent that the divine appellative “Yahweh Elohim” in Genesis chapter 2 denotes a Jehovist tradition that borrows from the mythology of other belief systems as well as the book of Exodus that originally used the generic designation of the native belief system of the Canaanite pantheon of El, the Father of Mankind; as in, “they beheld Elohim, and they ate and drank” (Exodus 24:11).
    Haven’t seen “Noah” in DVD format yet, but I saw another flim that starred the same actor who played Noah. In the book, “Winter Tales” by Mark Helprin (not Mark Halperin, the conservative spin doctor), from what I remember from 3 decades ago, begins with the parents who couldn’t get through immigration at Ellis Island and place their infant like Moses in a miniature boat which was recieved by Native American Indians somewhere in the marshes of Jersey (apparently they were there in the late 19th century, according to this work of fiction).When he grew up he went to Manhattan and the first thing he did when he saw the painted ladies was perform the foot-stomping mating ritual with extended arms holding a flask of beer and raw fish which none responded to. In the movie they show a glimpse of the oyster bar where that’s all you eat, giving it that turn of the century nostalgia. The main character then falls in with a gang of crooks called “short tails” (named after there black jackets and matching hat and derby) which he eventually flees (Proverbs 1:10-19) and hides in the space above Grand Central Staiton’s main lobby that is a domed ceiling that represents the heavenly constellations and instead of focusing on safecracking he meditates on the workings of things that pertain to the structure that holds the cosmos together, which he learns from the daughter of the owner of a liberal newspaper, is light. Outside the “agents of chaos” are searching for him, whose boss is a demon incarnate and who has a fetish for not allowing his supbordinates to have a conscience, or “think about the workings of things.” This is not unlike the Dead Sea Scrolls with the war of the sons of light against the sons of dakness, the latter under the direction of the demon Belial, which means lawlessness. Thought I’d post this even though it’s fiction but there is a character in the film who defects from heaven and is like a fallen “watcher” so I’m still keeping on subject.

  41. Paul Ballotta says:

    A lot of translations on Genesis 6:1 omit the term at the beginning of the sentence; “and it came to pass.” According to the rabbinical book BT Megillah 10b, this term, “Vayhi,” (it came to pass) denotes either distress or joy. “If distress, there is none like it; if joy, there is none like it” (“The Zohar” by Daniel Matt, vol 2, p.192). This event that came to pass was “tinged ” with, according to the Rabbi in another source, woe (Zohar 119b). “The phrase ‘tinged with’ renders ‘tifsei’, based on ‘tufsa’, ‘frame, mold, mold, form, configuration,, pattern'” (The Zohar, p.192).
    So it wouldn’t be necessarily out of context if I were to “frame” the term “it came to pass” as refering to a generation like those who were raised during the Great Depression when they couldn’t have anything but produced the iconic image of Rosie the Rivetter and would signify that “the daughters of man were good.” Contrast that generation with that of Naamah (Genesis 4:22), which means beautiful, at a time when you can have anything, of which Marylin Monroe is iconic. In ancient Israel, they used clay replicas of goddesses as an inexpensive way to connect to their beliefs. The statues of Northern Israel were representations of a female anatomy, while of the goddesses of Southern Israel, many were depicted with only the upper body as having a woman’s form with the lower body reprsented by a pillar. A reflection of the wealther liberal north (Marylin) and the more conservative south (Rosie)..

  42. Paul Ballotta says:

    Howard’s interpretation is plausable and on the first point he makes he compares the “sons of Elohim” seducing the “daughters of man” with the serpent/magician seducing Eve, using the line; “you will be like Elohim knowing good and evil (Genesis 3:5)” A similar occurance happened near the end of the reign of Pharaoh Ramses III that is described in the Papyrus of Harris. It involved a conspiracy to assassinate the aging Pharaoh by an official named Hui who conspired with a woman in the Pharaoh’s harem to place her son on the throne and that this would ultimately involve many high ranking officials, all of whom were put on trial after the assassination allegedly failed. Hui resorted to magic spells to assist the conspirators and his intended targets were the overseers of the harem whom were rendered helpless and the harem women who were the recipients of an amorous spell. The “magic powers of a god” are described in the papyrus as “hindering one troop and bewitching others.”
    “Not content with endeavoring to dethrone the king by an uprising of both soldiers and civilians, Hui, a certain high official, who was the overseer of the [royal] cattle, bethought him of applying magic to help their evil designs, and with this object in view he went to some one who had access to to the king’s library, and he obtained from him a book containing formula of a magical nature, and directions for working magic. By means of this book he obtained ‘divine power,’ and he became able to cast spells upon folk” (“Egyptian Magic” by E.A. Wallis Budge, p.74).
    Recent x-rays of Ramses III’s mummy reveal that he probably died immediately from his wound:
    http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/news/pharaohs-mummy-reveals-murder-palace-intrigue/

  43. Howard West says:

    Genesis 6:4 the paraphrase says “that these former angels had relations with the daughters of men” That word “relations” is incorrect it should be TOOK, as in appropriated as rent a womb: to Clone, creation of an animal life in the womb of host with out sexual intercourse.

    Point 1 Eve listened to the Magician/Snake who instilled in her, a thirst for forbidden knowledge.

    Point 2 JESUS cast out demons. Therefore, demons can inhabit people!

    Point 3 Teslave told people that he got his insights in to electricity from demons. The inventor of photocopying also had demon tell him how to create his machine that he called Xerox after his demon. .
    Point 4 Today “men” splice DNA to create new attributes in one species from another species.

    Point 5 to Clone, is to creation of an animal in the womb of host with out sexual intercourse and is possible today.

    Therefore, the creation of Giants Without SEX is a viable concept and is probably happening as we speak.

    Howard-West / Lock Gate, The Riddle Lords Secrets

  44. Paul D says:

    @Paul from Paul D:

    Referring to your above post. I’m not particularly interested in the mysticism of cultures preceding that of ancient Israel, I know all too well about such contrivances mixing Mesopotamian culture as events paralleling the Genesis accounts. I will give those cultures some credit for their fragmentary recording of the events of the Noah Flood, but their embellishments that differ from the Genesis accounts were a result of word to mouth reminiscence of events passed down for centuries before writing was invented.

    The biggest mistake so many well intentioned people make in trying to understand the Bible is by lifting a few words out of the context into which they are written & then trying to re-insert those words into another part of the Bible that is written in a completely different context, additionally they think inserting pagan Mesopotamian mythology of pre-Noah flood accounts can do the same thing. I simply cannot conceive of the possibility that mixing the mind of Christ with the minds of men can lead to greater truth, but that’s what happened in Gen 6 where mythology of ancient cultures are being inserted to “clarify” Gen 6:2 as promulgated in the Noah movie. I simply choose to pick the Genesis accounts recorded in Bible as the clarification of pre-flood events & not the other way around.

  45. Paul Ballotta says:

    If we accept that the “sons of Elohim” are the sons of powers that be (temporal rulers), it could be that the legend of King Keret would fit the description as being the “son of El.” Like Helen of Troy there’s allegedly a woman who inspires Keret to wage a military campain with apparently little regard for civilians against Udum the Great, which has been suggested as being Edom. The woman’s name is the same as the Egyptian designation for the land of Canaan, Hurru, and the Old Testament references Hurrian people being intermarried with Edomites in the region of Mount Seir (Genesis 36:29-30). It is my opinion that it is from these and other Horites (Kharu in Egyptian records) that the Hebrews received the Mesopotamian sources for the Genesis narrative, but changed them to suit their unique way of life, Mount Ararat is distinct from the Mesopotamian versions and it’s a reference to the kingdom Urartu which spoke Hurrian.
    So King Keret can fill in the blank in regards to the original narrative; “the sons of Elohim saw that the daughters of Adam were good…” After King Keret attacks Udum, King Pabel pleads with Keret through messengers; “Vex not Udum the Great, even Udum the Grand. Udum is a gift of El, even a present of the Father of Man.” Then Keret demands that the daughter of King Pabel be given to him, to which he responds; “Return and say unto Keret: – Alright, you may have her. But we shall miss her sorely. Everybody loves her because she is the embodiment of virtue.”

  46. Paul Ballotta says:

    You are correct, Paul D., but for the sake of the general reader, it’s safe to assume that the term “sons of Elohim” can refer to the sons of the singular “God” or the plural “gods” or if you prefer, “powers.” The same applies to Genesis 1:26 when Elohim said “let us make man in our image.” The singular “God” performs the work through the agency of the “gods/powers” since we know that the father of the Canaanite gods, El, was also the maker of mankind.

  47. Paul D says:

    “Paul says
    Good exegesis, Paul D., but this debate over Elohim with a small ‘g’ (gods) and a large ‘G’ (God) is becoming like that Saturday Night Live skit spoofing a commercial advertisement where two men are arguing over over a small can; “It’s shaving cream!” “It’s whipped cream!” Then Chevy Chase steps in and says, “It’s a shaving cream AND a whipped cream!”

    No, I see you do not understand the translation & transliteration differences that occur between languages. The King James writers did their translation without benefit of the Codices that were only just beginning to be discovered in the 19th century; Sinaiticus, Vaticannus, Alexandrinus, Septuagint, Nestle, Dead Sea Scrolls, Septuagint. I have been studying the Bible from these manuscripts for a couple of decades now, I appreciate their value.

    The English language is much differently constructed than early Hebrew, Aramaic & Greek. No upper or lower case highlighting, no sentence or paragraphing structure indicating beginnings & endings of distinct topics in those early languages, it was context that fixed the start/finish points. The King James translators did not have a Strong’s Concordance, but now we do & can better discern these things.

    When you fail to understand where the English word “god” came from, it is no wonder you get confused about the proper use of lower case versus upper case use of the letter “g” when referring to “god powers” in the Bible, and for that matter the case of proper anglicization for “elohiym”. If all the translations in existence would simply revise their texts to comport with the oldest Codices concerning the diverse spellings associated with deity, a lot of confusion concerning proper usages of those terms would be set aside. Paul D.

  48. Paul Ballotta says:

    Good exegesis, Paul D., but this debate over Elohim with a small ‘g’ (gods) and a large ‘G’ (God) is becoming like that Saturday Night Live skit spoofing a commercial advertisement where two men are arguing over over a small can; “It’s shaving cream!” “It’s whipped cream!” Then Chevy Chase steps in and says, “It’s a shaving cream AND a whipped cream!”
    In the current issue of BAR (Searching for the ‘Original Bible'” by Emanuel Tov) on pages 50-52 it cites the verse from Deuteronomy 32:8 based on the King James version:
    “When the Most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel.”
    This interpretation was based on a reading from the Masoretic text. However, the original translation from the Septuagint and Qumran scroll 4QDeut reads that the nations were divided “according to the number of the sons of Elohim.” There were 70 sons of Israel that settled in Egypt (Exodus 1:5) and 70 is also the number of the Canaanite pantheon, the sons of El. The father of the Canaanite gods was also refered to as El Elyon (God Most High) and so the original interpretation of Deuteronomy 32:8 likely read:
    “The Most High (Elyon) fixed the boundaries of peoples according to the number of the sons of God (El).”
    The term God Most High probably refers to the diety in his heavenly abode, which in the case of El would be the summit of Mount Hermon, where the watchers descended after having conspired to choose wives from among the daughters of Adam (1 Enoch 6:6).
    It is interesting how the poet John Milton in the first chapter of “Paradise Lost” chose to name the fallen angels after the gods of Canaan and its environs. As for the “sons of Elohim,” it is a fact that in ancient times the king and queen would assume the role of the god/goddess in a fertility rite.

  49. Paul D says:

    “So I agree with Jesus statement in Mark 12:25 and Matt. 22:30. Who could rightly disagree with the Master.”

    …….then you move right on forward & disagree with these scriptures.

    For Example quoting you: “Genesis 6:2, are actually angels
    (see Job 38:7 where angels are called “sons of God”) who had materialized as humans so they could have their pick of earthly women for obvious purposes. As human men they were able to do all the things that humans can do. They were no longer in heaven as spirits.”

    There is nothing in all the Bible that states “angels” can have sex with humans! Show it to me. Sure the “sons of (powers) God” did, but you are having a problem discerning the Hebrew & Aramaic definition for “elohiym” (#430 & 410 Strong’s Concordance) derived from two other words 193 & 352 which translated into English means “powers, strength, magistrates, judges”.

    Frequently human rulers are referred to as “elohiym”, eg, Ex 21:6, Ex 22:8, Ex 22:9. These are obviously not elohiym (god) in heaven, it is clear from the context they are elohiym (god) residing on the planet Earth. The question becomes one of when to transliterate into English a capital “G” for “heavenly elohiym” or lower case “g” for “earthly elohiym”. The context into which the words are written determine the use of either, in Gen 6:2 the context is human “elohyim” therefore the “sons” are of human origin.

    Christ is crystal clear angels never have sex with humans under any circumstances. There is no example you can show me from scripture that angels can of their own volition become humanoid & magically generate male appendages capable of manufacturing sperm, yet this is the fiction you & the movie promote. And why do you promote it? Because you & the Noah movie are contorting Gen 6:2 “sons” into “angels” based on an English capital “g” for “God” for the Hebrew word “elohyim” for you have no standing based on the words of Christ in Mark 12:25 & Matt 22:30, in so doing you are challenging the words of Christ himself, you are suggesting you know something Christ just plain forgot about & that he needs you & the Noah movie to get him straightened out on.

  50. Gene R. Conradi says:

    Paul–I believe you mistakenly quoted what Howard said(22) not my info(21).
    But the point you bring up has to do with whether angels can co-habit with the daughters of men.
    Angels in heaven are spirit creatures, who in their heavenly form cannot perform acts of marriage. So I agree with Jesus statement in Mark 12:25 and Matt. 22:30. Who could rightly disagree with the Master.

    However, the sons of the true God, referred to at Genesis 6:2, are actually angels
    (see Job 38:7 where angels are called “sons of God”) who had materialized as humans so they could have their pick of earthly women for obvious purposes. As human men they were able to do all the things that humans can do. They were no longer in heaven as spirits. This was in direct rebellion against God’s assignment for angels. Jude 6 says: “And the angels that did not keep their original position but forsook their own proper dwelling place, he has reserved with eternal bonds in dense darkness for the judgement of the great day.” Also 2 Peter 2:4 says: “Certainly God did not refrain from punishing the angels who sinned, but threw them into(Greek) Tartarus, putting them in chains of dense darkness to be reserved for judgement. And he did not refrain from punishing an ancient world, but kept Noah, a preacher of righteousness, safe with seven others when he brought a flood upon the world of ungodly people.”

    Genesis 6:4 says that these former angels had relations with the daughters of men and produced freakish, hybrid, offspring called “Nephilim”.(Hebrew”-fellers” or those who make others fall) They were referred to as mighty ones, basically bullies who greatly increased the violence of that ancient world. They apparently were giants compared to an average man. Much later after Israelite spies returned from the land of Canaan they compared the giant men in Canaan to the ancient Nephilim of Noah’s day.
    Of course this is not the only time angels took on human flesh. The angels that visited Abraham had materialized as humans so they could be seen and give a message to Abraham. These materialized angels were able to eat like any human(Gen.18,8) and no doubt had the ability to cohabit–but of course this would be a perversion of God’s purpose for them on earth. In time two of these men went to Sodom to warn Lot of a coming destruction (Gen. 19:1 where they are called angels). At other times the angel Gabriel materialized to Daniel and to Mary. These were rare events, but God had given his angels the power to materialize as humans, a power that has evidently been taken away from the angels who sinned.

    So God did not give permission to the wicked angels of Noah’s day to take human form nor were they ever forgiven for what they did. They are now on Satan’s side and contribute greatly to the wickedness on earth today. Soon they will be removed along with the great adversary when Jehovah vindicates His Sovereignty over both heaven and earth.

  51. Paul D says:

    “Gene R, then how in the world did that writer Know (?) to give in Chapter 81, star references to about 12,500 years before Christ: with Bootees ,Ursa major and minor as seasonal constellations. The last time that happened was just after a 1000 year sea stagnation period then MWP1B and sea-level rose by 26.7 feet in 100 years and continued to rise at over a inch per years for several thousand years”

    But Gene, you continue to miss the most important issue concerning all this conjecture contained in the Noah movie. It is that the author of all that is Holy Writ has clearly stated in Mark 12:25 & Matt 22:30 that there is no sexual behavior among heavenly beings, meaning they cannot just take an afternoon jaunt to a secluded corner of the Universe & find a human woman to cavort with, it is bodily impossible for them to do so………..DO YOU GET THIS MOST IMPORTANT POINT? Please, tell me you do because if you do not I can only wonder what next off the wall commentary like #17 Steve will be forthcoming…..

  52. Howard West says:

    Gene R. says

    The Book of Enoch is an apocryphal text. It is falsely ascribed to Enoch. Produced probably sometime during the second and first centuries B.C.E.

    Gene R, then how in the world did that writer Know (?) to give in Chapter 81, star references to about 12,500 years before Christ: with Bootees ,Ursa major and minor as seasonal constellations. The last time that happened was just after a 1000 year sea stagnation period then MWP1B and sea-level rose by 26.7 feet in 100 years and continued to rise at over a inch per years for several thousand years

  53. Gene R. Conradi says:

    The Book of Enoch is an apocryphal text. It is falsely ascribed to Enoch. Produced probably sometime during the second and first centuries B.C.E.,it is a collection of extravagant and unhistorical Jewish myths, evidently the product of exegetical elaborations on the brief Genesis reference to Enoch. This alone is sufficient for lovers of God’s inspired Word to dismiss it
    Reference:Insight on the Scriptures, Vol I. Page 729. 1988

  54. Paul Ballotta says:

    Yes Paul D., there’s a vast reservoir of tradition on the subject from which a couple of references were streamlined in the book of Jude verse 6 and verses 14-15. It is thought that Genesis 6:1-4 was written in the 10th century B.C.E. and it is assumed that the folks back then would have had more information on the subject that was eventually lost. It was around the 3rd century B.C.E that the first installment of the book of Enoch was composed; the book of Watchers. It may have been a reaction to Greek influences on Jewish society known as Hellenism (named after Helen whom the Achaens allegedly conquered Troy over but was probably the goddess Helle of the strategic Hellenspont waterway whose economic importance was the reason for the Trojan war). There was also a lost book of Giants of which only a fragment remained in the Dead Sea Scrolls.
    That fact that the Gentiles had superior technology was adressed in the book of Watchers in which the watchers taught the people inventions that weren’t nesessarily beneficial if their aim was to corrupt by promoting vice. In Genesis 4:20-22 the ancestors of the trade guilds are recorded and in John Milton’s “Paradise Lost” (Book 11), the angel Michael relates to Adam after his disobediance the consequences of sin on his future descendants, who are among the “sons of God”; who forsook their spiritual wings for human desires:
    “To these that sober race of men,
    Whose lives religious titled them the sons of God,
    Shall yield up all their virtue, all their fame ignobly,
    To the trains and to the smiles of these fair atheists,
    And now swim in joy, (erelong to swim at large) and laugh;
    For which the world erelong a world of tears must weep.”

  55. Paul D says:

    “I would have to agree with commentator Howard # 11, that the book of Enoch was an authoritative source for early Christians”.

    I don’t know about “early Christians”, I know “enoch scrolls” were found among the Dead Sea Scrolls. Ever read much from that book? Talk about Greek Mythology sounding like oddballistic mysticism, Jewish mysticism is right out of the same vein of occultism, what with two “Eves” & on it goes.

  56. Paul D says:

    “The gyrations you two use to get around what the text says is laughable.”

    What gyrations? “Mark 12:25, Matt 22:30, no sex if you please, meaning no offspring”? Is this one of those “gyrations”? If you think those words of Christ are “gyrations”, what must you think of the rest of the Bible?

  57. Steve L. says:

    Paul D and Kimberly…

    You’re either Church of Christ or from a denom that has a heavy Calvinist influence.

    The gyrations you two use to get around what the text says is laughable.

  58. Paul Ballotta says:

    Paul, I would have to agree with commentator Howard # 11, that the book of Enoch was an authoritative source for early Christians. As for the church “father” Jerome, to whom we credit for translating the biblical canon into Latin, perhaps he and other church ‘fathers” had a vested interest in excluding this book. I once read where Jerome wrote to a female parishoner that he wanted to see repentant tears in her hollow cheek, which to me is a red flag that these fallen angels or watchers were perhaps religious figures who conspired to make women subserviant. We’ve seen the failed social experiments of the Taliban and other spin-off extremist movements that forbid women to work so that the leaders get to pick which ones to marry after denying them education and perpetuating a cycle of poverty.

  59. Paul D says:

    “So, what’s wrong with just sitting back and enjoying an action-packed, roller-coaster ride with “Noah”? Absolutely nothing—as long as you understand that “Noah” is a fictional account of a biblical epic—just as “Miriamne the Magdala—The First Chapter in the Yeshua and Miri Novels” is a fictional account of the Jesus’ personal relationship to Mary Magdalene during the so-called “missing years”. Both works are an artistic interpretation of the original story, retold in order to appeal to a modern audience.
    My advice … ENJOY!
    JB Richards”

    Jeanne: Bad advice, “ENJOY”. Embellished fictional thesis masquerading as “truth” does more harm to promoting the truth than if one simply comports with the clearly posited statements contained within Holy Writ. The Enoch chronicles so many have such a fetish with clearly do not comport with Holy Writ.

    Jeanne, read John 1:1, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God…..”, this is speaking of Christ himself. Christ only is the author of all of Holy Writ, anything else, though it may contain a particle of truth, only leads us further from the truth.

    Using words that are not Christ’s own cannot possibly lead one closer to the truth, such embellishments are designed to lead the reader away from the factual nature of Christ’s proclamations & not closer.

    By Christ’s own words he clearly states that heavenly beings are incapable of producing offspring through sexual relations, but what is the raging debate about this “Noah movie”? The exact opposite of Christ’s clearly worded statements, this is not a fantasy God implores the human race to “enjoy”. I know you will probably take this as an affront to your post & I don’t intend for it to sound insulting, but fantasies are a huge hinrance to the “truth”.

  60. Kurt says:

    Did Our Languages Come From the “Tower of Babel”?
    “Jehovah scattered them from there over all the surface of the earth, and they gradually left off building the city. That is why its name was called Babel, because there Jehovah had confused the language of all the earth.”—Genesis 11:8, 9.

    Did that event recorded in the Bible really happen? Did people start speaking different languages all at once, as described? Some scoff at the Bible’s account of how human languages began and spread. One author claims: “The Tower of Babel myth is definitely one of the most absurd stories ever told.” Even a Jewish rabbi called it “a naive attempt to explain the origin of nations.”
    read more:http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/wp20130901/did-languages-come-from-the-tower-of-babel/

  61. Paul D says:

    I’m Paul D. who wrote the post immediately above, please distinguish between me & the other Paul who posted in #’s 1 & 2 above.

  62. Paul D says:

    What is wrong with simply taking the words of Christ at face value: Mark 12:25, Matt 22:30, no sex if you please, meaning no offspring.

    Start your interpretation with what the Bible is crystal clear on, not what your fantasies like to indulge in. The “sons of God (Heb: powers) engaging in betrothed sex producing offspring can’t possibly be “beings” from heaven because we clearly have the words of the one who is the author of the Bible: Yeshua, Iesous Jesus, or whatever other spelling of his name be your choosing.

    The Hebrew word from which we extrapolate GOD from the German word GOTHIC is the generic Hebrew word which is POWERS. In Genesis 6 “sons of God” is literally transliterated as “sons of powers”, it becomes a matter of who the “powers” are as to whether the reference is to earthly powers or the supreme powers in heaven. In Genesis 6 the context is to earthly “powers” because the these earthly powers (god, if you please) are engaging in sex producing offspring, something heavenly powers cannot do, period.

  63. Howard West says:

    The book of Enoch, Chapters 10-12, 54-82 are told by Noah, 105 describes his birth and Chapter 81 give a star references to about 12,500 years before Christ with Bootees ,Ursa major and minor as seasonal constellations. The last time that happened was just after a 1000 year sea stagnation period then MWP1B and sea-level rose by 26.7 feet in 100 years and continued to rise at over a inch per years for several thousand years. Jesus, Jude,Peter, Daniel and other Biblical writers quote the book of Enoch. So if Jesus quotes it I don’t care what Jerome says.

  64. Shannon says:

    By the way, Aronofsky’s “Noah” is not based on Genesis or on 1 Enoch. Check this out if you really want to know where he got his ideas:

    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/geneveith/2014/04/noah-the-kabbalah-and-gnosticism/

  65. Jane Pilson says:

    I saw the movie, and then came home and reread the biblical account. I wonder if the “Nephillim” might be a memory of Neanderthals? They definitely mated with “daughters of men” according to the DNA record.

  66. Shannon says:

    I have to agree with Kurt. While the movie had my interest initially for its flood special effects and the like, the final 3rd of the movie completely ruined any entertainment value this fiction weakly based on reality may have had. Epic fail. They picture would have had some merit if the credits would have started rolling once they got on the ark. Oh well. Let’s hope Ridley Scott can keep from killing his Exodus movie.

  67. Kurt says:

    Sadly, regardless of theology or how it plays with source materials, either Biblical or extra-Biblical, turns out that it’s just a bad movie. I attempted to watch it this past weekend and had to turn it off after an hour an a half.

  68. JB Richards says:

    With the premiere of the Hollywood movie, “Noah” sailing into movie theaters all across the country, crowds are packing the theaters to enjoy this action packed summer blockbuster. It’s certainly a fun ride, but how does the movie compare to the actual story of “Noah” in the Bible?

    Well, to tell the truth, it just doesn’t hold up very well at all. From the giant “Rock Giants” who help Noah build the Ark and the murderous killing spree Noah embarks on to purge mankind of evil, to the not-so-subliminal messages against the wanton destruction of flora and fauna, the movie takes many liberties to tell a good story, but the plot-line fails to meet the biblical text.

    So, what’s wrong with just sitting back and enjoying an action-packed, roller-coaster ride with “Noah”? Absolutely nothing—as long as you understand that “Noah” is a fictional account of a biblical epic—just as “Miriamne the Magdala—The First Chapter in the Yeshua and Miri Novels” is a fictional account of the Jesus’ personal relationship to Mary Magdalene during the so-called “missing years”. Both works are an artistic interpretation of the original story, retold in order to appeal to a modern audience.

    My advice … ENJOY!
    JB Richards
    Author of “Miriamne the Magdala-The First Chapter in the Yeshua and Miri Novel Series” and Content Creator for The Miriamne Page

    For more information on this novel series, and The Miriamne Page, just click on this link: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Miriamne-the-Magdala-First-in-the-Series-of-the-Yeshua-Miri-Novels/206903979347028

  69. Penny says:

    …the Watcher’s were not ‘fallen’ until they made a conscious consensus decision to enter into the human evolutionary journey,… as a delegation of Angel’s assigned to Earth as ‘Watcher’s’, …they ‘forsook their First Estate’, and entered permanently into the ‘stream of the human story’, (genomic); by relinquishing their immortality, and status in Heaven (which they discovered was a consequence of their concensus disobedient action, so then they petitioned Enoch for intervention, mediation with God) …the Watcher’s decision, was lead by ‘Azazel’, who was a doubter of God’s sovereingty over the Earth’s evolution, and who became attracted to the desired human experience … the ‘will’ (of disobedience), towards satiating a physical desire for this activity created the distortion of the outcome…as apposed to an immaculate desire that also produced it’s own results; (also genomic); much later in the human story…

  70. Michele says:

    I saw the movie. Such a disappointment. But I’d like to talk about Genesis 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

    1st: of all if you read it again, the giants were here before the ‘sons of God’ arrived. 2nd Every other reference in the OT to ‘sons of God’ clearly refer to NOT fallen angels. So why do people think this one could mean fallen angel? And since when does God bless the evil acts of satan with ‘men of renown’? Why didn’t God call those offspring giants? Or cursed? Or something other than a man to be looked up to and admired?
    I’m not sure where this leads, but one thing I don’t believe is that the ‘union’ was not with fallen angels, but perhaps instead with God’s elite beloved angels.

  71. KImberly says:

    OR, the Bible, the book of Enoch, etc., are full of metaphor, simile, and figure of speech. Many of these things were not meant to be taken at full literal face value. The ancients loved to use symbolism to represent stories, people and events. Egyptian hieroglyphs are a great example of figurative picture language or iconography. That’s not to say that these stories are not historical accounts or that literal events and people were not involved. For example, if we review the Hebrew word for “angel”, malak, we find it doesn’t mean a supernatural being at all, but “messenger”, AND ALSO, king, priest, judge, lord, shepherd, ambassador, deputy, etc. Angels in the Bible are actually referring to “humans”. The sons of God were humans. Usually when referring to the descendants of Adam through Seth—those who walked with God.

    The constellations are also used throughout the Bible to depict a story or certain event. Ezekiel, chapter 1 is a great example of that. Also in the book of Job.

    Don’t get me wrong, I study the ancient history of all cultures, and I too, am fascinated by the ancient stone monuments, cities, and monoliths. There was obviously a very advanced culture that disappeared some 5 to 7000 years ago.

  72. Paul Ballotta says:

    What I meant to say in my previous comment is that it is the flora of post-glacier Europe that supports the fauna that the sons of Adam hunt. It was in present-day northern Sudan and southern Egypt that the first attempts at plant domestication supported large communities that endured uninterrupted for a long period of time:
    “As the prehistorian Chester Chard has pointed out, since the Middle Paleolithic, many groups were already concentrating on certain types of animals (and probably plants), so all that was needed to develope effective domestication was lots of time for trial and error experimentation and a little luck. Apparently,the late Paleolithic Egyptians posessed neither, although our evidence shows that they made an extraordinarily early attempt at domestication, and that its failure was accompanied by some rather traumatic side effects. Shortly after 13,00 B.C. grinding stones and sickle blades with glossy sheen on their bits (the result of silica from cut grass stems adhering to a sickle’s cutting edge) appear in late Paleolithic tool kits” (“Egypt Before the Pharaohs” by Michael A. Hoffman, p..88).
    It is beleived that the next attempt at plant domestication occured in the region of Gobleki Tepe, so perhaps this is the land of Nod (wandering) that Cain settled in, east of Eden (Genesis 4:16). In “Food of the Gods,” (p.74) Terrence McKenna raises the possibility that Eden was in the African Sahara as evidenced by the rock art at the Tassili Plateau in southern Algeria:
    ” The Tassili-n-Ajjer of 12,000 B.C. may well have been the partnership paradise whose loss has created one of the most persistant and poignant of our mythicalogical motifs – the nostalgia for paradise, the idea of a lost golden age of plenty, partnership, and social balance. the contention here is that the rise of language, partnership society, and complex religious ideas may have occured not far from the area where humans emerged – the game-filled, mushroom-dotted grasslands and savannahs of tropical and subtropical Africa. There the partnership society arose and flourished, there hunter-gatherer culture slowly gave way to domestication of animals and plants. In this milieu the psilocybin-containg mushrooms were encountered, consumed, and deified. Language, poetry, ritual, and thuoght emerged from the darkness of the hominid mind. Eden was not a myth – for the prehistoric peoples of the high plateau of the Tassli-n-Ajjer, Eden was home.”

  73. Paul Ballotta says:

    Haven’t seen the movie yet, but it seems to me that the stone giants are the prehistoric Stonehenge-like monuments like the site of Gobekli Tepe near modern Urfa in southeast Turkey (ancient “Ur of Kasdim,” Genesis 11:31). Believed to be the first temple yet discovered, the site was probably in use as a cult center before the temple’s construction:
    “Rising 50 feet above the surrounding plai, it certainly qualifies as a ‘high place,’ which the Hebrew Bible so often associates with religious rituals and early encounters with God” (“Religion at the Dawn of Civilization” by Ben Witherington III, BAR, Jan./Feb 2013, p.58).
    There is a problem with the chronology of period when this temple was in use (9500-8000 B.C.E.) because this occurs prior to the advent of farming and animal husbandry which were already established by Cain and Abel. In the Sumerian myth “Cattle and Grain,” the first generation of the gods known as Anunnaki (sky gods), “knew not the eating of bread, knew not the dressing of garments, ate plants with their mouth like sheep, drank water from the ditch.”
    If we were to read into the text of Genesis 6:1 as if it applied to the period at the end of the Paleolithithic (known as the Epipaleolithic), it would start; “And it came to pass…” (the last ice age came to an end), “…when men began to increase on the ground…” (the retreating ice sheet allows fauna to flourish that supported animal life that provided hunting ground for men), “…and daughters were born to them…” (the division of labor between sexes with woman gathering wild plants).
    Somebody went to the trouble of reading into the book of Genesis to describe Gobekli Tepe:
    http://www.andrewcollins.com/page/articles/Gobekli_Tepe_interview.htm
    The standing stone inscribed with a human with wings may represent one of the “sons of God” in Genesis 6:2, or “Anunnaki.” The Nephilim (fallen ones) in Genesis 6:4, otherwise known as the giants, might actually be represented by a 17.5 foot tall standing stone carved in a stylized manner with the ceremonial attire worn by priests at that time. Perhaps this powerful priest was regarded as “infallible” since his stature was as tall as the temple itself.

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